Do you own a Cuneiform tablet? read this.

Maybe put all the coin info on it, small and in cursive. Make it hard to read to help prevent theft while meeting all the legal requirements.

Constantius II Ae2 4.43g DN CONSTAN-TIVS PF AVG, pearl diademed, draped & cuirassed bust right, A behind bust / FEL TEMP RE-PARATIO, soldier spearing fallen horseman who is wearing a Phrygian helmet, sitting on ground, arms up, A to left, dot ASIS dot in ex. RIC VIII Siscia 253

 

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The rules for receiving Internet purchases can be read at https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/internet-purchases which says "You should ask the seller to provide the following information, whether or not it is asked for on the paperwork. ... Country of origin of the product itself. Be aware that this is not necessarily the country where the item was purchased."

(I am not sure how a person could legally receive an totally unidentified coin with this requirement.)

 

Good point on unidentified coins -- would apply to uncleaned coins as well. Or items from old collections that don't have clear information.

 

I would not encourage this. If they cant read it there likely would be an increased reason to inspect it (and maybe subsequently steal). I still feel 'numismatic token' is just fine. Its honest and correct and does not attract much attention from thieves or ignorant officials.

Its all a slippery slope, isn't it? These customs rules were established not for coins, but for various other reasons (first and foremost taxes) including embargoes, counterfeit products, etc.

Anyway, I posted in another forum (not Coin Talk) about the use of customs forms. I was subsequently branded a 'smuggler' and 'launderer'. You can see the thread here, but keep in mind he doesn't make good use of quotation marks, so its hard to see which words are his and mine (he intertwines them to make his point):

http://paul-barford.blogspot.com/2017/04/us-dealer-publicly-admits-laundering-by.html

 

Actually, ISIS only destroys what it cannot sell in the black market. By buying these artifacts you could be indirectly funding these terrorist organizations and depriving Iraqis from there heritage which was lying underground waiting for an archaeologist to excavate it, document it and then Iraqis would decide whether they want to keep it in their museums or sell it to other museums or collectors!!

 

Precisely, they couldn't sell the ruins of Palmyra so they just destroyed them.

 

The topic of ISIS selling antiquities has been discussed in depth within the antiquities collecting community. I dont recall the specifics, but there was an ISIS operative who was killed and a thumb drive retrieved which listed income from various sources. It did indeed include an accounting relating to artifacts. It was however a very small amount of money suggesting that the practice is not widespread. Also it was documented that while ISIS does no smuggling themselves, they tax those who do.

The problem with antiquities is that they number in the many millions. The vast majority came to collectors hands well over 100 years ago. As such there is no provenance and no way to retrieve one. It is impossible to tell exactly where and when they came to be at any place or point in time.

 

That still is not stopping some from claiming repatriation of artifacts. Many museums have been asked to return certain items acquired in the past. One that comes to mind it the Rosetta stone taken in 1799 and is now in the British museum.

 

This is a very interesting thread to me because I filled out my first CN-22 two weeks ago and had similar questions about how to fill it out ethically while minimizing the odds that the package would not get held up in customs. Expedience, not deception, was my goal. The coin I sent was not especially valuable and would not be in violation of the law, as far as I know.

I am particularly curious about how to handle coins struck in Rome or other Italian mints. I was concerned that a coin (or "numismatic antique") with Italy as its country of origin would be more susceptible to searches since I thought Italian laws are somewhat strict on antiquities.

Is this assumption correct?

 

Lets be honest here, like most artifacts, all but the absolute best of these would not be in museums and they certainly wouldn't be sold on the market(the current archaeological profession is too far against private collecting to allow that). They would end up hoarded in a warehouse or storeroom and would never be enjoyed by anyone except possibly a curator. The same thing happens to most coin hoards that are found.

 

True. Egypt wants everything back, lock, stock and barrel. Greece wants the Elgin Marbles, the list is endless.

The customs form is fairly clear:

"(6) Enter, if known, the "Country of Origin", which is the country where the goods originated - i.e., where they were produced/manufactured or assembled."

Again, Stamps.com, Endicia and others do not ask this (and they are following to the letter the US Postal requirements. They have to in order to retain their status as a postal re-seller).

It makes one wonder though. In the US there are strict requirements (some federal, and some state which are more draconian) regarding what you can label as "made in the USA" (I am not aware of requirements regarding anything outside the country). If we took those rules and applied it to customs forms, we would have to declare something else entirely. I am not aware of any mint who had an on-site gold, silver and base metal mine. Sure, there are some mint cities where mines were close, but in the modern world and with all the changing of borders....see where I am getting at here?

 

D.C. Bible Museum denies connection to Hobby Lobby's smuggled antiquities.
http://dcist.com/2017/07/hobby_lobby_fined_3_million_for_sto.php

 

First, had no idea DC has a Bible Museum. Sounds like fun place to visit next time I'm up there. I would love to see their antiquities exhibits.

Second, you know, although I'm thankful that their crimes probably saved these tablets from destruction, nevertheless, doing the wrong thing (even if it has unintended good consequences) cannot be justified. Hobby Lobby is making things harder for us collectors, giving the other side ammo to crack down on us.

I won't be shopping at Hobby Lobby again for quite some time.

 

But you will visit their Bible Museum - hmmm.

 

If only there was a word to describe that

 

The museum is unassociated with Hobby Lobby (aside from supposedly may have donated).

 

When I was in the sauna at my gym, there was a guy in there who was a "biblical archaeologist". He goes to old sites (middle east, etc.) and digs up antiquities. The problem is, he then tries to fit what he finds into an already preconceived story. Which is the exact opposite the way science is supposed to work.
Someone was saying how "cool" what he did was, but I didn't want to make a fuss and tell him he is the reason people don't understand what really was going on thousands of years ago, because he is distorting the truth with his preconceived model.
If the bible museum was not buying the antiquities from HL, then who was?

 

Not to get religious, but if I visit the Bible Museum, it would be just to see the ancient artifacts. Religion has nothing to do with it.

If an Islamic museum opened with a thorough collection of 7th through 15th century Middle Eastern artifacts, I'd go see it. That doesn't mean I endorse the religious messages or the religion. You don't have to be a certain race, ethnicity, or religion to appreciate interesting historical artifacts from any region of the world.

 

I think this disassociation is a bit disingenuous. The Green family bought the property for the museum, and the proposed museum will house the Green collection of artifacts. It seems the Greens and this museum are quite intimately connected, even if they keep the paperwork separate. Perhaps the museum directors are in a bind: the Greens have the, um, green, but the museum professionals have to keep the acquisitions legal and compliant.

The source here is the Baptist Press--a press one might expect to be somewhat sympathetic to the Greens' enterprise: "Green began collecting rare Bibles and other artifacts in 2009 and has presented the items in a traveling exhibit aimed at revealing the Bible's accuracy. Credited as recently as 2012 with holding the largest personal collection of rare biblical artifacts in the world, the Green family purchased the site of the Museum of the Bible for $50 million. The 430,000-square-foot structure is just three blocks from the nation's Capitol." http://bpnews.net/49180/hobby-lobby-to-forfeit-bible-artifacts-pay-3m-fine

 

I wasn't talking about the bible museum or the cool artifacts.
I am sure there are great things to see and people are free to believe whatever they want. I was just relating the story of when I met a biblical archaeologist, and that the "science" they use is incorrect.