Do you ever look at old coin pix and think ugh?

Outstanding examples, congratulations on building your IHC collection to this high level. Awesome!

 

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Am I wrong to believe that at some point the bubble in premiums will burst....especially when a Top Coin or near-Top Coin collects 50-100% (or more !) in PCGS (CAC) holder ?

 

I don't put much weight or value in a slab. That would be a question for others that solely rely on PCGS opinion. And then you would also have a skewed view.

 

In my opinion, yes. Same answer in an NGC Holder, if CAC has granted a Green or Gold.
A Bubble may be a slightly strong term, and I don't know that I agree with the description of the current market as a Bubble. I don't necessarily agree with the 50-100% upcharge figure, but I understand the thrust of the question.

 

I wasn't referring to the spike in price because of a higher grade OR CAC....but rather the same coin, CAC or no CAC, in PCGS vs. NGC holders.

 

Yes, that is why I answered as I did.

 

Thanks Doug...great comments as always.

 

Then maybe you can clarify what the comments mean, outside of uninformed generalization and hyperbole.

 

My impression is that one of them puts more effort into covering it up.

 

GDJMSP is a veteran, clearly knows the ins-and-outs of grading along with other veterans here (maybe including you too, Charley ).

I have been fascinated -- rightly or wrongly -- with some of the longest, most-detailed, most egregious examples of Gradeflation involving PCGC coins, despite NGC coins being the ones which trade at a discount. Responses to this are necessarily going to be generalizations and opinion. It's not something you can quantify, that's for sure.

I probably shouldn't have used the word "bubble" when addressing you because that is more appropriate when describing a rapid rise in prices that is unsustainable. This Grafeflation involves SUSTAINED and PERSISTENT prices that show a premium for PCGS, one that increases as the condition scarcity increases, all other things equal.

As I said, I just find that weird, considering that PCGS seems to have the most infamous examples of overgrading. Maybe NGC had that distinction from 1986 through the early-2000's, I dunno.

 

My response is....there is nothing wrong, and everything right, about taking profits when the opportunity presents itself, instead of complaining about what is not an opportunity. Veteran or not. Ins and outs knowledge or not. There is everything right about being fascinated, because it emphasizes that there is a choice. Complaining about a TPG opinion is a waste of time. The piece either is what a person wants and likes or it isn't.

Blahblah generalizations accomplish nothing, especially when the generalizations are no more or less "knowledgeable" than any other collector observations, and do not impress or impart some magic decoder ring wink wink inside TPG knowledge. Don't like the TPG opinion? Think TPGs are unfair? Think one is favored? No problem. Start your own TPG, so you too can submit to CAC and show what is wrong with all the other TPGs.

Like one TPG more than another one? Fine. Use that one, and move on. PCGS in your opinion, has a premium for the prices paid for the coins? Then sell any you have, and put the money in NGC pieces at a discount. Or, sell all the TPG Holdings ,and buy only raw pieces that meet your definition of non-inflated technical graded pieces for your collection. Because otherwise, all that is being discussed is investment.

I am a veteran here. So? That and $6.75 gets me on the Orange Line.

 

It's not about complaining, Charley....I think on-balance the TPGs have been a Godsend to this industry, esp. to novice/interemdiate collectors like me. Veterans with greater grading skills than me may approach that question differentily, I grant you.

The specific issue is a few coins which have mysteriously gone up several grades after NOT being given those grades during earlier submissions.

Going up 2 full grades is not a question of catching a more lenient grader or someone being in a better mood that day. Especially when it takes up the value of a coin by 10-30 times.

Again, I think the TPGs are on positive a HUGE PLUS...it's about asking why and how some coins, submitted by some dealers, have suddenly gone up into a rare conditional grade that is worth alot of $$$.

You don't find that interesting ?

I'm not really interested in gaming the system for profit, again, I'm just wondering why a few coins, submitted by some individuals, have gone up MORE than 1 full grade...into conditions worth a huge increase in $$$....and many times, after NOT going up a grade or less during an earlier submission.

Is that like the NY Mets Blue Line that sits in the bleachers at CifiFIELD ?

 

Understood.

 

I’ll settle for just being a side kick