If you take a coin and look at it under a powerful enough microscope...and then dip that coin and look at it again I will admit you might be able to see some minor difference based on comparing that coin's individual characteristics. But, if I handed you a coin with full mint luster and asked you if you could tell me if it had been dipped or not...the answer would be a flat no. There is no way to tell. That was my point.
Problem is your point is incorrect. Have you tried? It doesn't take very long to view a few original coins, then a few dipped coins, and you'll know what to look for.
Exactly, there’s a difference between 1800s original and original since 1980s but they’ll look identical
As far as originality is concerned, I generally only trust original/unopened bank rolls to give 100% original coins. Most other coins are suspect.
So moderns then. If one is determined to avoid dipped coins then those would be your only option anyway.
Are you saying that all older coins have been dipped? I can't believe that. What a shame it would be if greed and lack of a spirit of stewardship led the numismatists of the past and of today to destroy our country's numismatic heritage! What I do believe is that there are quite a lot of coins left that are original and un-molested. At least I hope so.
They didn't destroy anything, that's why you're so unaware at how many really have been dipped over the years because its not detectable when done properly
Have you seen the coins in the National Numismatic Collection of the Smithsonian? The goals of collectors have changed over the last couple of centuries. Today, the idea of "originality" is king. We want coins that haven't been tampered with. In yesteryear, they wanted coins that were bright and shiny - and so many of the coins in even the finest collections were cleaned to brighten them up. The mindset has changed over the last hundred years. That's why, when people like Doug claim that a very significant number of coins have been cleaned or dipped, I can absolutely believe him. The philosophy of collecting coins has changed - we are only observers of history. I do believe that there are a lot of coins which escaped molestation. But I'm also realist enough to know that many coins didn't. I do, however, believe that the in-favor-of-dipping crowd overestimates the number of coins dipped.
I would have thought that you the self proclaimed person who can identify any and all coins that have been dipped should know this already. I'd type my own response...but @baseball21 is right on the nose. So instead of typing myself I will just quote him:
I do consider dipping to be cleaning, but I chose that it's market acceptable. I also chose "dipping is a problem when it's improperly done".
I may be speaking for the majority of collectors when I say that I could really care less whether my coins have been dipped at one time or another. If a TPG says they are market acceptable, that’s good enough for me. I understand that a lot of classic coins have had, heaven forbid, even a light abrasive cleaning and have been deemed gradable after retoning. But I don’t care about that either. As long as my coins don’t look like they have been scrubbed with a Brillo pad and can make it into a straight graded holder, I’m happy. I have a feeling that a lot of coins would be ugly dogs if truly original. But none of them have been on tracked on video for the past 100+ years so we really have no idea what has or hasn’t been done to them. So I’d rather not argue about it and just enjoy them if they look decent.
My response to this is what happens IF dipped coins become not market acceptable? Then a lot of people are screwed! It COULD happen. Reed and Sparkles the Unicorn.
Again. How can you prove a specific coin has been dipped? You can’t so no...it can’t happen. When I say that I am not talking about over or improperly dipped coins.
The TPG’s know the difference! I don’t do silver for that exact reason, I can’t tell. Reed and Sparkles the Unicorn.
Ok if you say but they look at dipped coins every day so I’m sure they have more experience that us. Plus who calls a coin market acceptable for what reason? They do! So they know. But you are correct dipped correctly and only a few times and you and I can’t tell with X5 mag. But if I look at it under my microscope it’s a little different view and crazing is crazing and it’s only caused one way copper or silver no difference. Reed and Sparkles the Unicorn.
You know how it goes if some day they CAN tell it was dipped or laser treated then luster won’t matter and the coin will come back details. Just a thought. But I agree if you like it and you put it in your collection then that’s cool it your collection do what makes you happy! Reed and Sparkles the Unicorn.