Do proof coins have die polish lines?

OK, I won't answer but here's a clue:

Master Die makes a Hub
Hub makes a Working Die
Working Die makes a coin

 

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Contrary to what you seem to think, the dies absolutely were polished by hand (why do we go through this every few months?). The initial polish on a new die used a machine like you describe, but dies were often touched up mid-life by hand. I was imprecise in my terminology in the post you quoted (I think I implied something like a lady would use to polish her nails.) Roger Burdette describes the procedure on page 425 of his book "From Mine to Mint."

 

I don't know this series but I enjoy online sleuthing. It didn't take me long to find more than a dozen proof examples on PCGS and Heritage with exact matches to the OP's die polish lines. One example is below. While I found a few MS examples with die polish, none were a match.

 

Yep.

 

I'm still not sure what a hub is (I really need to read FMTM )....but I am going to guess that they produce STRAIGHT lines ?

 

Well done!

 

While comparing obverse die polish, I started wondering "what's up with that mole on Liberty's shin"?

There are many examples with an exact match of the die polish, but no "mole". And quite a few with the mole (below). There is also what appears to be a small die crack above the mole. These features are repeated on many examples. OP coin is far right.


The 4th and 5th images from the left are Heritage coins, which also show a die crack progressing above 1873 (below). There's no sign of the 1873 die crack on the OP coin or the others with the "mole".


I have a hard time believing that a mid-state die would switch over to business strikes and then back to proofs. Therefore I think NGC attributed it correctly as a proof.

 

QUESTION: Vintage dies were made from hubs. Please describe what the mark on a finished coin will look like when circular polish lines occur on a hub?


GoldFinger1969, posted: "I'm still not sure what a hub is (I really need to read FMTM )....but I am going to guess that they produce STRAIGHT lines ?"



Hint: Look up how dies are made. This should be BASIC knowledge for EVERYONE above the level of a coin hoarder collector starting with coin roll hunters.

 

I do not agree to the finality of statement of this opinion.

 

Your thoughts on FMTM ?

I tried reading it a while back and it was very difficult for me to read and comprhend. When Roger's SAINT-GAUDENS DE book came out, I quickly switched to that.

I have picked up bits-and-pieces of how coins are made from CT and other online sources, so another stab at FMTM is on my agenda.

 

This is a pretty good short read on the process and history. "How Dies Are Made" https://www.doubleddie.com/58201.html

I think of a hub as a "master coin". Raised relief on the hub is raised relief on the coin, everything incuse on the hub is incuse on the coin - assuming everything transfers perfectly from hub to working die to coin. If you scratch the hub, it's raised on the die, and scratched in the coin. You can see a gouge in the corn husk on every Barber dime 1892-1899 because the master hub had the gouge.

 

FMTM is very dense, and even Roger doesn't really recommend reading it cover to cover. It's intended as a reference. You go look up the bit you're interested in, and read that bit. The thing is, it is meticulously researched, fully sourced from original mint documents, and much of it is previously-unknown to the numismatic community.

 

Thanks PF....my tendency is to go straight to interesting sections of a book and for that reason, I don't do it because I think I am cheating myself for buying the book in the 1st place. Thus, I literally read every book I buy cover-to-cover.

Maybe I'll give myself a break and hit the relevant sections in FMTM. It will save alot of time and help me in the conversations here at CT.

 

Proof coins can most certainly have die polish lines. Years ago I sold an 1858 Silver Three Cent Piece that was in a PCGS PR-66 holder. The coin had so many polish lines on it that it made me wonder about the grade. When you looked at it with a strong glass, all of them were raised.

This photo is from "Coin Facts." This piece is graded PR-67, and it has a lot of polish lines on the obverse as you can see from the photo. They are most visible under the word "OF" and near "AMERICA."



It's been my experience that many Proofs from the early 1870s were carelessly made. I have seen Proof 1870 cents that almost looked like Mint State pieces.

 

JM, didn't they "polish" dies differently in 1858 than they did in the 1920's and also today ? I suspect today they use special high-speed instruments (lasers ?) and liquids.

We know it's a quantum improvement in proof striking today vs. 100 years ago, let alone 160 years.

 

Hey, that's Miss Mona Lisa Vito's line !!

 

Maybe FMTM has an answer. Seems like it's not one size fits all. I've seen die polish lines parallel but going almost perpendicular to each other, which seems like it couldn't happen on a machine such as the one in the video.

 

If you look at the picture on page 426 of FMTM, it illustrates the machine used. The die worker held the die by hand against the machine. If the die worker changed the position of the die, you'd get criss-crossed polish lines.