Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
US Coins Forum
>
Do 21st Century Coin Collecting Methods Drive Prices Down and Hurt our Hobby?
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 3075948, member: 112"]What you're asking about is pretty complicated. There is a lot one has to know, has to understand. To understand price guides of any kind, one first has to know what the given price guide uses as their source for the prices they list. All price guides tell you what their sources are - all you have to do is take the time to look. And then, you have to know how many different sources there are for coin prices. And then you also have to know if that source is a reliable source or not. And if so, just how reliable ?</p><p><br /></p><p>Of course if one does not have a good understanding and a good knowledge of the coin market, and how it all works - making any kind of objective and accurate judgement about all of this is just about impossible. And since very few people have that knowledge and understanding, it's all too, too, easy to make bad judgements. </p><p><br /></p><p>Going back at least 6 or 7 decades coin dealers have largely relied on the electronic dealer markets to establish coin prices. This was clear back in the day when they used ticker tapes to do this. In today's world they use computers, and there are several different electronic dealer markets. What those dealer markets show dealers is the current, real time, Bids and Asks for any given coin in any given grade being offered by all dealers across the country. It is those Bids and Asks that establish the real world prices for coins - all day, every day. And they change all the time. It works just like the stock markets do. The prices of coins don't change for the same reasons the stock markets do, but the method of tracking the prices, the principle of keeping track of them is the same.</p><p><br /></p><p>Now a lot of folks don't even know this, aren't aware that electronic dealer markets even exist. And most of them don't have access to these markets. </p><p><br /></p><p>For over 50 years the Grey Sheet reported what the prices on the electronic dealer markets were on a weekly basis. As such the Grey Sheet was the single most reliable <u>published</u> source there was in existence for coin prices - that collectors had access to. </p><p><br /></p><p>But then a couple of years ago, the Grey Sheet changed everything, they no longer use the electronic dealer markets as their sole source of information for coin prices. Today they include other sources, just like all other price guides do. And in fact some of the same sources that other price guides do. To my way of thinking, that puts the current reliability of the Grey Sheet in question. Other opinions may vary.</p><p><br /></p><p>You mentioned ebay, and that you thought realized ebay prices were accurate. Well, think about ebay for a minute. Think about how many posts you see on this and other coin forums where people laugh and joke, and make fun of what some people pay for coins on ebay. Think about all the times that it is said that a person would have to be completely out of their minds to pay what they did for a given coin on ebay. Think about all the bidding wars there are on ebay. Think about how many times people buy counterfeits, or how many times people by problem coins, or how many times people buy stupidly graded coins in bottom tier slabs that nobody in who even remotely knows coins would even look at - let alone buy a coin in one of those slabs. Think of the very word bidiots, a word that was coined specifically to describe people who grossly overpay for coins, and just how many of those people there are and how often they overpay for coins - that such a word as bidiots deserved to be coined in the first place. And then think about this - ALL OF THIS occurs on ebay, every single hour of every single day !</p><p><br /></p><p>Now I ask you, given all of that, just how accurate do you think the realized prices on ebay could possibly be ?</p><p><br /></p><p>Are there some accurate realized prices on ebay ? Sure, I have no doubt at all that there are. But how do you tell one from the other, accurate from inaccurate, if you don't already know what an accurate price is ? And if you're looking at ebay to determine that - you rather obviously don't know what an accurate price is.</p><p><br /></p><p>All of this kind of stuff is the reason that all price guides are worthless - completely and totally worthless.</p><p><br /></p><p>The one and only chance that anyone has of determining a reasonable price range for a given coin is to use the realized auction prices from the big auction houses as their basis. Or, get access to and use the electronic dealer markets.</p><p><br /></p><p>Now a lot of folks will disagree with and dispute what I've had to say here. Why ? Because in most cases that's not what they do themselves. And people would rather disagree with almost anything than they would admit to themselves, let alone anyone else, that what they are doing and what they believe is wrong. Admitting that you are wrong - to yourself - is one of the hardest things there is to do.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 3075948, member: 112"]What you're asking about is pretty complicated. There is a lot one has to know, has to understand. To understand price guides of any kind, one first has to know what the given price guide uses as their source for the prices they list. All price guides tell you what their sources are - all you have to do is take the time to look. And then, you have to know how many different sources there are for coin prices. And then you also have to know if that source is a reliable source or not. And if so, just how reliable ? Of course if one does not have a good understanding and a good knowledge of the coin market, and how it all works - making any kind of objective and accurate judgement about all of this is just about impossible. And since very few people have that knowledge and understanding, it's all too, too, easy to make bad judgements. Going back at least 6 or 7 decades coin dealers have largely relied on the electronic dealer markets to establish coin prices. This was clear back in the day when they used ticker tapes to do this. In today's world they use computers, and there are several different electronic dealer markets. What those dealer markets show dealers is the current, real time, Bids and Asks for any given coin in any given grade being offered by all dealers across the country. It is those Bids and Asks that establish the real world prices for coins - all day, every day. And they change all the time. It works just like the stock markets do. The prices of coins don't change for the same reasons the stock markets do, but the method of tracking the prices, the principle of keeping track of them is the same. Now a lot of folks don't even know this, aren't aware that electronic dealer markets even exist. And most of them don't have access to these markets. For over 50 years the Grey Sheet reported what the prices on the electronic dealer markets were on a weekly basis. As such the Grey Sheet was the single most reliable [U]published[/U] source there was in existence for coin prices - that collectors had access to. But then a couple of years ago, the Grey Sheet changed everything, they no longer use the electronic dealer markets as their sole source of information for coin prices. Today they include other sources, just like all other price guides do. And in fact some of the same sources that other price guides do. To my way of thinking, that puts the current reliability of the Grey Sheet in question. Other opinions may vary. You mentioned ebay, and that you thought realized ebay prices were accurate. Well, think about ebay for a minute. Think about how many posts you see on this and other coin forums where people laugh and joke, and make fun of what some people pay for coins on ebay. Think about all the times that it is said that a person would have to be completely out of their minds to pay what they did for a given coin on ebay. Think about all the bidding wars there are on ebay. Think about how many times people buy counterfeits, or how many times people by problem coins, or how many times people buy stupidly graded coins in bottom tier slabs that nobody in who even remotely knows coins would even look at - let alone buy a coin in one of those slabs. Think of the very word bidiots, a word that was coined specifically to describe people who grossly overpay for coins, and just how many of those people there are and how often they overpay for coins - that such a word as bidiots deserved to be coined in the first place. And then think about this - ALL OF THIS occurs on ebay, every single hour of every single day ! Now I ask you, given all of that, just how accurate do you think the realized prices on ebay could possibly be ? Are there some accurate realized prices on ebay ? Sure, I have no doubt at all that there are. But how do you tell one from the other, accurate from inaccurate, if you don't already know what an accurate price is ? And if you're looking at ebay to determine that - you rather obviously don't know what an accurate price is. All of this kind of stuff is the reason that all price guides are worthless - completely and totally worthless. The one and only chance that anyone has of determining a reasonable price range for a given coin is to use the realized auction prices from the big auction houses as their basis. Or, get access to and use the electronic dealer markets. Now a lot of folks will disagree with and dispute what I've had to say here. Why ? Because in most cases that's not what they do themselves. And people would rather disagree with almost anything than they would admit to themselves, let alone anyone else, that what they are doing and what they believe is wrong. Admitting that you are wrong - to yourself - is one of the hardest things there is to do.[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
US Coins Forum
>
Do 21st Century Coin Collecting Methods Drive Prices Down and Hurt our Hobby?
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...