Featured Do 21st Century Coin Collecting Methods Drive Prices Down and Hurt our Hobby?

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As a stamp/coin collector I'm kind of surprised that this thread so far made no mention of young Americans. They sure don't collect stamps and ask yourself what is the predominant age group at coin shows. Mostly 50 or older? While a case can be made that forming familys, paying mortgages,saving for college tuition eats up younger collector's discretionary income I'm old enough to have watched, at least in stamps, three generations of attendees at shows and I'm still waiting for a flood of new 50 year olds. New blood isn't emerging in sufficient numbers. One could argue they prefer to buy on the Internet. If so and the market is healthy with buyers why are prices low? Yes, what appears scarce in a local market in a nation wide market of 330 millions of people with maybe twenty examples of the same coin or stamp listed gives the appearance of a plentiful supply and so a race to the price bottom. In that way Ebay, Etsy etc have hurt the market. Generating new collectors to carry on from us is in my opinion the key. Another thought: when coin publications trumpet the latest auction results and the emphasis is on prices most of us will never be able to afford how does a newbie or an oldie not be depressed and sometimes give up the hobby? And I do understand the desperate need of publications to generate ad revenue. I would suggest less reworked auction house public relations pieces and more editorial content for medium to low budget collectors like myself would be helpful. What do you think?

 

That's fine, but I question the assumption that "the demographic of CoinTalk members" reflects "the demographic of coin collectors", bceause it also reflects "the demographic of people willing to sign up for a social-media site".

Lately, it also seems to reflect "the demographic of people who've watched Get Rich Quick From Pocket Change videos on YouTube".

Perhaps a more interesting question: are those on-line information (and disinformation) sources actually driving more young people into the hobby? Could be -- but I don't know how to tell. Checking show attendance or coin-shop customers might yield distorted results, too.

 

Doug,

How about the average age of those who have posted at least once within the last year? Any data on that? Participation, even at a low level, should indicate a more serious interest in coins than merely joining. I'm also curious as to whether there has been a change in the gender mix of members over the last few years.

Cal

 

This isn't about prices going up or down. I'm in favour of not specialising, or being unduly interested in coins of one's own country, USA, UK, or wherever we sing our national anthem (if we do !). To look inwards, toward one's own country, and only going for those coins, is limiting. My feeling is that we need to widen our horizons, and look more towards other parts of the world (which some of us already do !).

 

I think that a venue like Ebay can only increase traffic past a given item, and therefore; demand for it.

 

The age of the new members in the forum going down, relative to the amount of new young collectors in the general population, is a completely different statistic.
The forum is not a fair sample, as this is exactly the place that the few new young collectors would come to.

 

Technically nothing is unique in Seated Dollars except perhaps the no motto 1866. However, I think this is a trend due to their relatively high value. For example in the half dollar series, I may have had close to 20 specimens at EF to slabbed -63. One of them was an 1842 in a 63 slab that was really nice. Possibly not clean enough for a gem but no hairlines/rubs no major marks and light peripheral toning with near brilliant centers.

However on another occasion I ordered an 1853-P Half from Heritage, fixed price in a 63 slab. This is of course the var 2, arrows & rays which is highly sought by type collectors. What I got in the slab was abysmal. Of course I returned it but Heritage always had me on record as having bought that coin from them. They didn't adjust my client profile to show the return [pls don't tell them]. Anyhow while you can find overgraded slabs and cleaned coins everywhere; in seated halves I found quite a few original pieces. Same with smaller coins tho I primarily specialized in the halves. Dollars tho were a whole another level in trying to find nice ones.

Anyhow I believe that the dealer practice of constantly cracking out nice coins while profitable, can hurt the field in that it leaves fewer coins for collectors to find. Another example is with the drop in gold prices at times I was looking for both ms-64 Indian $5's as well as the occasional nice double eagle. Of course the Indian 5 market was manipulated and these are expensive again. On the 20's I almost don't trust buying one unless I can see it in person.

Of course I'm really a World & Ancients collector. Sometimes I like to talk about US coins tho...

 

Go look at Instagram, Reddit, Facebook, Youtube, any other social media site you want to think of and internet sales ect. That's where you find younger collectors, not at coin shows or coin club meetings.

 

That's very interesting, and it makes sense. It's like scouts hired by college or professional sports teams that go out and recognize talent (value) in high school and college players before the general market catches on.

 

It would be nice if, according to GDJSMP, the 35-40% of females could participate more frequently and actively. Is Coin Talk unduly biased towards male participation, and does CT not do enough to encourage female interests in numismatology ? Such as showing more women on coins (e.g. Cleopatra?) ? But instead of me speaking on behalf of the ladies, it would be better if they put forward their own views !

 

Without question at least to some extent for social media sites as people stumble across things or see something shared by a friend and get interested.

Completely agree for the forums.

 

I could come down on either side of this discussion for a number of reasons. I live in a remote location and without the internet I would have given up on collecting long ago because of travel restrictions. I have problems believing I am unique and I think the internet has probably increased participation. But the days of the local coin store may be passing other than a storefront for an internet operation. When the world is your market a store on Main Street has no particular value.

I contend that our greatest challenge will come as more and more currencies go electronic and the younger crowd will grow less interested in coins. So the historical nature of coins grows in importance in my book.

But on the supply side I think it is tougher for dealers. Coins which we thought were rare may only be rare within our geography and the internet pretty much erases the geographical boundaries. Also with PCGS and other TPGs tracking auction sales you are less likely to over pay or pay full retail for circulated coins. I believe rarities will continue to exist but may be more in the camp of die varieties and grade.

As interest wanes in current issues the rarity of top grade coins increases. Sales at the US Mint are way down and that may just be a short term trend, but maybe not. I believe that they have become their own worst enemy because of a lack of understanding of markets. As their sales slow they raise prices rather than dropping them to increase item profit and not overall profit. A 25% to 30% premium on an item from the Mint is just too high and they are helping kill off younger collectors. We see the same logic at the Post Office, but they are just on a faster track.

As the great philosopher Waylon Jennings said "If you see me getting smaller, I'm leaving." Our challenge is to not get smaller and kill off demand. I am always interested in the history of a coin, why it was created, and why it was replaced.

 

Your enthusiastic talk about female members seems impressive. As for that 5 year old whiz kid, it would be lovely to see her picture, holding the coin. BTW, GDJMSP, it was very nice of you to present her with a gold coin, which, from your description, she richly deserved. - Despite your reassurances, it would also be nice to have some ladies giving views from female points of view. That doesn't mean that I disregard your views, on this topic, not at all.

 

I find this post and follow-ups fascinating!

GDJMSP I agree with a lot of what you say, but I definitely think coin trading
is going the way of the internet.

Regarding whether this will affect pricing, well that is something completely out of our control, so why are we making such a big deal of it? It has created a much larger market, which, in my opinion, is always a good thing.

And I think your definition of a coin dealer is
questionable. Do they really still live off of what they make selling to other
dealers and collectors at trade/coin shows? And if they do, are there really
nearly as many of them as there were 20-30 years ago? It seems you would have to get much more adept at what you do just to make the same amount as before, or at least change your tactics.

Again, I think what you are saying is probably true currently, or in the recent
past, but probably not in the near future. Internet coin sales will take over, and
old timey coin shows/auctions will die out and be left to the antique stores that may
still exist years from now.

I think one thing to remember is that coins can be seen much more clearly now through close-up pictures/scans which are easily transmittable on the internet, so this can make quite a difference.

 

They already have.

 

"things like this get forgotten" (GDJMSP). If so, maybe this discussion needs to continue. Or should we flip a Coin ???

 

I believe this is a function of progress, especially as it relates to stamps. Creation of electronic postage, delivery of electronic mail, and transitioning to self adhesive stamps make collecting stamps almost impossible for current issues. I divested myself of stamps years ago because I could see this issue coming. Coins are a little different because of the intrinsic value in my book, and you still cannot make your own.