Distinguishing Between "Condition" and "Grade."

This could have easily been changed in my opinion with out such confusion.
AU currently has four numeric grades. There is plenty of room in 50 - 59.
to adjust these issues. Grading a coin as mint state when it is not, is not the answer.
What I see as the answer is finding a value based on a beautiful slightly circulated coin with an AU grade. Giving it a higher value than the 60 to 63 dog.
There surely would be less confusion from the public.
Bottom line as @BuffaloHunter has said.

An AU coin should not grade as UNC.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Or you could try learning for once. The fact that you think 60s are more sought after from registry points is hysterical. You also described grading that hasn't happened since before you were born. Don't believe me ask @Insider but this has all been told to you several times before.

 

@baseball21 has the right idea, but doesn't take it far enough.

The numeric grading scale is a goofy idea, because it tries to map several different things into one number. These include strike quality, luster, bag marks (which somehow aren't "damage" or "wear" even though they happen after striking), circulation wear (which might not count if the coin is special enough), and maybe other things.

It does not try to map "damage", which is different from bag marks or wear. Never mind that an MS60 silver dollar or double eagle usually looks worse than a lot of parking-lot finds I've come across, and never mind that the same scratch that would pass unremarked on a 1916-D dime will body-bag a 1916-P.

And let's not even start on toning.

The thing is, different collectors weight these things differently. So, we have "buy the coin, not the slab", which makes perfect sense. But we also have "don't buy key dates or expensive coins raw".

The hobby as a whole is schizophrenic. But it's better than being dead, I guess.

 

In my opinion they are

40 or 45 is more precise than extremely fine.

 

That doesn't adjust the issue though. The issue is that it's maxed out at 59 even if you max it out at a 59+ CAC it would still be maxed out there with the hard-line while a 60 which as mentioned above often look like they were found in a parking lot is graded higher on the scale that goes to 70.

That line never should have been there in my opinion and it should have just been a 1-70 scale. Not the two scales it started as. It's one of the reason why I think we would be better losing the letters in the grade. A lot of people get hung up on the AU MS thing and some people have suggested having MS 50-58 and AU 60-65 but that seems more confusing to me than just dropping the letters if people want to keep being sticklers about the terms.

 

I use the terms interchangeably, but if there is a difference perhaps it should be similar to the difference between history and the past. The past is what happened. History is what people believe happened and say happened, and thus different people see the same event differently. So condition might be thought of as what the coin really is, with all it's wear, nicks, imperfections, or lack thereof. A grade is rather what someone, whether a TPG, dealer, or owner says about that condition, leaving plenty of room for disagreements about how to grade particular wear (is it even?), nicks (how many, how deep, on what part of the coin?), or imperfections (rough? porous? does a planchet defect add or detract?). That is why there are resubmissions of the same coin.

 

But how often can you sell an AU58 coin for more than an MS60, even though its eye appeal is far better?

 

I would say that depends on who is buying it and for what reason. Eye appeal is big for most collectors I would think.

 

It definitely adjust the issue. An AU coin would rightly deserve it's place. The problem is that from 70 down people like to see a falling price.
Well too bad. AN AU coin is just that ABOUT UNC. And UNC means it doesn't have any wear. Why is this so difficult?

That line is there and in my opinion it is being crossed way to often. lets not start a ridiculous argumentative name calling thread.

The TPGS have crossed a line. That should have never been crossed.

 

Eye appeal is the biggest factor I use when buying a coin. The grade is meaningless.( anymore that is)

 

No it doesn't. Something isn't better just because it doesn't show friction. The whole term uncirclated is a fallacy as well. You can have a coin that circulated that shows 0 traces of it.

There's no reason coins can't be graded 1-70 based off merit. This doesn't mean 45s will be 60+ but 58s with the slightest of friction yes they should be higher.

If someone wants to insist on the hard line in the sand than there should be a 1-70 scale for coins with friction and do a separate 60-70 for the "uncirculated" coins which very well could have circulated for the lower grades

 

I guess the word "circulated" can mean different things to different people. Can a coin thus be "uncirculated" once it leaves the Mint facility? Once they are realesed into the public, how can they be "uncirculated?" Or does "uncirculated" mean no visible wear? To me, it means no visible traces of wear whether it made it out of the Mint or not.

 

This is an honest question, not rhetorical.

If a coin slides from a press into a bag, sustaining enough friction to mar its surface, is that "wear"?

What if it slides against other coins while being transported in a bag?

What if it slides against the fabric of the bag itself?

 

Circulated is only the surface conditions. A rub a hairline, etc. Something that didn't happen in a bag or the result of the minting process.

 

For grading it does mean that, but it doesn't mean that it was never spent or circulated at all. It takes time for friction/wear to actually show up

Which really was kind of my point all along about how things need to be more fluid and not this stickler stuff with some of the terms.

 

No they shouldn't.

Why we already have 1-59 for that. Why are you confused?

 

It also brings up what and how "damage" is determined when deciding if something is straight-graded or given a dreaded details grade.

 

My fault for trying to actually have a discussion with you. Save your effort and troll someone else, I'm done responding to you.