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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Col Davidson, post: 3244238, member: 73908&quot;]Hi All,</p><p><br /></p><p>Some time back I noticed a <a href="http://www.ptolemybronze.com/" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.ptolemybronze.com/" rel="nofollow">Ptolemy bronze</a> coin for sale and fortunately was able to purchase it. It has a <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=diameter" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=diameter" rel="nofollow">diameter</a> of between 16.31 and 17.13 mm with a <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=weight" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=weight" rel="nofollow">weight</a> of 2.80 grams and is in rather rough condition.. What directed me to the coin was its <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=obverse" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=obverse" rel="nofollow">obverse</a> – to me it appeared to show not the god <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=1787" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=1787" rel="nofollow">Zeus</a> but a Ptolemaic <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=king" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=king" rel="nofollow">king</a>. One coin does not a series make so I checked numerous illustrations of coins for something similar and finally found an astonishingly similar match with coin #20 on Plate 6 of “The lotus of Aphrodite on Ptolemaic bronzes” by Dr Catharine <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=lorber" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=lorber" rel="nofollow">Lorber</a>. That coin is 19.0 mm in <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=diameter" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=diameter" rel="nofollow">diameter</a> with a <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=weight" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=weight" rel="nofollow">weight</a> of 4.34 grams and is in the <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=ans%20collection" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=ans%20collection" rel="nofollow">ANS collection</a> (1944.100.78967, Philipsen coll.). This second coin appears to have been struck from the same dies as my coin and I contacted Dr <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=lorber" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=lorber" rel="nofollow">Lorber</a> and sent her photographs and details of my coin.</p><p><br /></p><p>Dr Catherine <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=lorber" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=lorber" rel="nofollow">Lorber</a> was extremely helpful and is of the opinion that the <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=obverse" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=obverse" rel="nofollow">obverse</a> shows a Ptolemaic <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=king" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=king" rel="nofollow">king</a> in the guise of Zeus-Ammon (that is, she reads the ram&#039;s horn on the <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=king" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=king" rel="nofollow">king</a>’s <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=head" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=head" rel="nofollow">head</a> as representing&nbsp; an assimilation of Zeus-Ammon to a Ptolemaic <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=king" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=king" rel="nofollow">king</a>) and that he has an unusual <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=type" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=type" rel="nofollow">type</a> of beard that leaves the chin bare but covers the back <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=part" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=part" rel="nofollow">part</a> of the jaw. This <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=type" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=type" rel="nofollow">type</a> of beard is not normal for <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=1787" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=1787" rel="nofollow">Zeus</a> or Zeus-Ammon but appears on late <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=portraits" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=portraits" rel="nofollow">portraits</a> of Ptolemaic kings. She mentions that it is unexpected to find this kind of cryptic <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=104" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=104" rel="nofollow">portrait</a> on a bronze coin and wonders what might have motivated the production of a bronze issue with such special iconography.(Dr <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=lorber" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=lorber" rel="nofollow">Lorber</a> is, to me, the current &quot;Great&quot; in the <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=field" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=field" rel="nofollow">field</a> of Ptolemaic <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=1670" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=1670" rel="nofollow">numismatics</a>).</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The actual <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=765&amp;pos=0" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=765&amp;pos=0" rel="nofollow">Ptolemy</a> and the period of the coin are <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=still" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=still" rel="nofollow">still</a> in question. The lack of dimples would normally point to it being after 110BC but ptolemybronze.com shows and mentions a number of bronze coins dating to about 137BC which also have no dimple (Sv1624, Sv1628, etc). Regarding the unusual <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=1521&amp;pos=0" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=1521&amp;pos=0" rel="nofollow">eagle</a> – I have seen a coin of <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=765&amp;pos=0" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=765&amp;pos=0" rel="nofollow">Ptolemy</a> <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=viii" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=viii" rel="nofollow">VIII</a> with a somewhat similar tail and, regarding the <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=king" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=king" rel="nofollow">king</a>’s <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=head" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=head" rel="nofollow">head</a> with the “under the chin beard”, I found an illustration of a statue of <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=765&amp;pos=0" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=765&amp;pos=0" rel="nofollow">Ptolemy</a> IX with an under the chin beard – then I found one of <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=765&amp;pos=0" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=765&amp;pos=0" rel="nofollow">Ptolemy</a> X with a similar beard – then I found a statue of <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=765&amp;pos=0" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=765&amp;pos=0" rel="nofollow">Ptolemy</a> IX that was thought to be an altered statue of <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=765&amp;pos=0" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=765&amp;pos=0" rel="nofollow">Ptolemy</a> X with the same beard – then I gave up.</p><p><br /></p><p>Attached are photos of my coin and of that in the <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=ans%20collection" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=ans%20collection" rel="nofollow">ANS Collection</a> (Courtesy of the <a href="http://www.amnumsoc.org/" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.amnumsoc.org/" rel="nofollow">American Numismatic Society</a>). </p><p><br /></p><p>My coin, and its brother from the ANS Collection, appear to be a new series of a Ptolemaic <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=king" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=king" rel="nofollow">king</a> yet to be determined. At the present time they appear to have a population of two coins in total. Hopefully more examples will be found, one of which might be a dateable example, and so give us an idea of just who this <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=king" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=king" rel="nofollow">king</a> was. Otherwise he will remain just one of the hundreds of mysteries in the Ptolemaic bronzes.</p><p><br /></p><p>Perhaps the <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?action=mlist" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?action=mlist" rel="nofollow">members</a> of Coin Talk know of other examples. Comments would be appreciated.</p><p><br /></p><p>All the best, </p><p><a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=col" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=col" rel="nofollow">Col</a>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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