Featured Discovery of a new ancient Javanese gold massa coinage series c. 800-1000 CE

Looking forward to what you publish on these, TuckHard. The middle one with the Lion is published by Mitchiner, 2012 ONS article as early Dutch East Indies - that guess because of the "Dutch" lion. Except there are types with similar flan character (flat reverse with sword, convex obverse with animal), and overall the metal is too old for that period. I wonder about the big elephant coin below, whether the same flan characteristics, as I haven't seen this type with elephant. The other large one with turtle in round incuse almost looks like a namo, but presumably tin. Indonesian sellers call them all "Srivijaya."

 

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I've found Mitchiner's JONS piece but I'm hesitant about the Dutch attribution, it seems much older like you said and features other animals. The elephant and turtle piece both appear to be like the larger tin ingot coinage from Palembang that is commonly attributed to the Srivijaya. I believe the larger pieces are tied to the tiny specimens which I suspect are dated to around 850-1000 CE. I don't know much about the Namo coins but Robert Wicks has shared his distrust about their authenticity with me.

 

I'm having some problems with the posting here, so forgive me if I repeat something. Here is the weight referred to by Robert (EWC) and also a plain one weighing 39.62gm. Yes, there are base-metal namos with silver plating that came out in the 1960s or 1970s, but there are real silver ones as well, and gold.

 

Many years ago I had a conversation with a guy who had lived somewhere in Indonesia. I forget the details, I think in Sumatra, but maybe Java? He told me that he had planned to give an introductory talk to a local history society about old coins, but pulled out when he was told that it was illegal to say that the origins of the Indonesian Rupia lay in the India Rupee.

I have no idea how much truth there is in any of this, and would welcome better informed comment. It seemed to both the guy and myself that “Rupia” is a word taken from the Sanskrit, along with its money connotation. Exactly 400 years ago Francis Bacon argued for a world where people focussed more on things, and were less distracted words – because words so often paid tribute to what he called “idols of the tribe”. Seems to me very pertinent in this instance, even more than…….near everywhere else.

I share your opinion that early Indonesian weight systems “possibly” had their roots in Indian practice. I would say probably.

I would like to take the weight standard discussion further – but think it best to start a new thread I think.

Thanks to Scott for the very important new info on weights!!!

Rob T

 

Both of these weights are tin I'm assuming? I believe that Wicks writes a fair bit on some of the weights found from the region but I'm still researching the weight system so I don't have a clear idea on it.

 

Its a good while since I read Wicks on weight standards. If I remember it correctly, I felt he did not cross reference his positions very closely to what was going on in India. Personally, I think Indian developments were kind of vital to understanding the matter, but maybe (?) such a move is politically unpopular in Indonesia in modern times?

If you find time to summarize Wicks' position I would be glad to try say more

Rob T