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<p>[QUOTE="Severus Alexander, post: 2935235, member: 84744"]Wow, phenomenal writeup!!! Are all those Rome mint ants yours? The Diocletian is sure awesome, and wow, what a set if the rest are yours too! (But I'm thinking some are CNG photos of others' wins?) </p><p><br /></p><p>I especially found your thoughts about the portraiture interesting. It's curious how the portraiture changed over the course of the 3rd century. Early in the century the classic realistic portraiture of the early empire was maintained reasonably well. As the crisis progressed, so did the likelihood of less realistic and/or idealized (and/or cartoonish!) portraiture. Then, somehow, there was this emergence of the stark, idealized tetrarchal style. As you've shown, it wasn't exactly a linear process! Here are a few coins that strike me as relevant to this theme:</p><p><br /></p><p>This Florianus (276) from Siscia really foreshadows the tetrarchal style, I think:</p><p>[ATTACH=full]713609[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>This eastern Carinus (Cyzicus) contrasts strongly with the western mint portraiture that you show. Resembles the early Diocletian portraits to some extent:</p><p>[ATTACH=full]713610[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>Speaking of early eastern Diocletian, here's Antioch, as early as it gets, i.e. 284 (thanks [USER=42773]@John Anthony[/USER]!) [correction: issued 285, the reverse on the earlier ones ends in AVG, this one is AVGG. Thanks to [USER=44316]@Valentinian[/USER] for the heads-up!):</p><p>[ATTACH=full]713611[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>And not much later, dating from 285-288, we have this rather tetrarchal looking Maximian from Ticinum, though still with an element of realism:</p><p>[ATTACH=full]713612[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>This contrasts with a western portrait of Maximian, at Lugdunum (though it's still rather impersonal):</p><p>[ATTACH=full]713613[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>Compare that with an early portrait of Maximian at Rome (issued 285-6), which isn't much different from your early Rome Diocletian. A bit curlier beard, more like your(?) Carinus:</p><p>[ATTACH=full]713614[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>This last coin is interesting for another two reasons. First, Max is represented as Augustus, although the standard historical account (which you present) says he was Caesar in 285. Here's what RIC has to say about that:</p><p>[ATTACH=full]713615[/ATTACH]</p><p>Thus the early dating from RIC.</p><p><br /></p><p>Second, this coin shows Jovian imagery on the reverse, paired with Max, the Herculean Augustus. Obviously they hadn't worked out the Jovian-Diocletian/Herculean-Max motif yet!</p><p><br /></p><p>Well that's about all I've got to say for now. Thanks for the great post!!![/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Severus Alexander, post: 2935235, member: 84744"]Wow, phenomenal writeup!!! Are all those Rome mint ants yours? The Diocletian is sure awesome, and wow, what a set if the rest are yours too! (But I'm thinking some are CNG photos of others' wins?) I especially found your thoughts about the portraiture interesting. It's curious how the portraiture changed over the course of the 3rd century. Early in the century the classic realistic portraiture of the early empire was maintained reasonably well. As the crisis progressed, so did the likelihood of less realistic and/or idealized (and/or cartoonish!) portraiture. Then, somehow, there was this emergence of the stark, idealized tetrarchal style. As you've shown, it wasn't exactly a linear process! Here are a few coins that strike me as relevant to this theme: This Florianus (276) from Siscia really foreshadows the tetrarchal style, I think: [ATTACH=full]713609[/ATTACH] This eastern Carinus (Cyzicus) contrasts strongly with the western mint portraiture that you show. Resembles the early Diocletian portraits to some extent: [ATTACH=full]713610[/ATTACH] Speaking of early eastern Diocletian, here's Antioch, as early as it gets, i.e. 284 (thanks [USER=42773]@John Anthony[/USER]!) [correction: issued 285, the reverse on the earlier ones ends in AVG, this one is AVGG. Thanks to [USER=44316]@Valentinian[/USER] for the heads-up!): [ATTACH=full]713611[/ATTACH] And not much later, dating from 285-288, we have this rather tetrarchal looking Maximian from Ticinum, though still with an element of realism: [ATTACH=full]713612[/ATTACH] This contrasts with a western portrait of Maximian, at Lugdunum (though it's still rather impersonal): [ATTACH=full]713613[/ATTACH] Compare that with an early portrait of Maximian at Rome (issued 285-6), which isn't much different from your early Rome Diocletian. A bit curlier beard, more like your(?) Carinus: [ATTACH=full]713614[/ATTACH] This last coin is interesting for another two reasons. First, Max is represented as Augustus, although the standard historical account (which you present) says he was Caesar in 285. Here's what RIC has to say about that: [ATTACH=full]713615[/ATTACH] Thus the early dating from RIC. Second, this coin shows Jovian imagery on the reverse, paired with Max, the Herculean Augustus. Obviously they hadn't worked out the Jovian-Diocletian/Herculean-Max motif yet! Well that's about all I've got to say for now. Thanks for the great post!!![/QUOTE]
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