I've found a coin that I'm interested in. Tompkins's book (Early United States Quarters) describes the obverse of the coin as being Die Lapped. And the reverse is described the same way. That would mean it was done by the Mint. How does one differentiate between Die Lapped by the Mint and abrasively cleaned (PMD) by a collector? From past discussions I've heard that Die Lapped done by the Mint should have the "abrasion lines" going right up to the devices. Whereas abrasive cleaning by a collector will leave an untouched "halo" area around the devices. More input would be greatly appreciated. Surfing the net didn't help much.
www.coincommunity.com has quite a few threads on lapped dies. Type "lapped dies" in the search box and take a look around. Just a thought.
Any lapping done to the die at the mint will change the die in some way. Depending on several things, lapping of the die at the mint can range from: 1. Hardly any evidence on the coin . 2. Mirror reflectivity. 3. Microscopic raised polish lines. 4. Larger raised polish lines. 5. Parts of the coin's design polished off the die and therefore missing from the coin. In past thread discussions, there have been arguments about whether die polish lines can cross on a coin. One numismatic scholar who has authored books on the mint and operations believes that POLISHING LINES FROM LAPPING DO NOT CROSS; HOWEVER, ANY OTHER POLISHING DONE TO A DIE MAY CROSS AND THEY USUALLY WILL. In order to tell the difference between Mint-made "lines" on a coin and lines from abrasion, all you need to do is to tip and rotate the coin while using magnification. I use a stereo microscope. It gives me depth perception. FOR SIMPLICITY: Lines on the coin that are raised are from the Mint. Lines that are incuse are either from a polished hub (same color as the coin's surface), adjustment marks, scratches or hairlines. Scratches and hairlines look nothing like the previous two. Unless the surface is toned or etched, hairlines and scratches are shiny. Depending on how they happened and their severity, PM cleaning or scratches generally go over a coin's relief leaving a "halo outline" of original surface where the field and relief meet. Mint die polish can run right up to the relief (incused part of the die), jump the hole in the die, and continue on the other side of the relief. Hope this helps.
Okay, a bit more complicated than I anticipated. Here's the image I've got to deal with. It's a raw coin and since I'd like to buy it I have to decide on a fair price which will be considerably different based on whether the 1 to 7 lines are Die Lapped or abrasive cleaning. I want it slabbed so that the Browning Number can appear on the label. If you also see anything else on the negative side please mention it. It is listed as AU. I think I'll go for it whether it ends up as original or Genuine. My offer depends upon our consensus.
The decision is yours to make but I have NOTHING good to say about the coin. I should advise anyone not to buy it. It appears harshly cleaned and may...I say may squeak into the AU-50 grade.
Sorry...not a fan. I don't see anything alluring. This is not a difficult date by any stretch. Far better examples are readily available. Lance.
Looks harshly cleaned and slightly retained to me. Judging by the stars, it seems decently struck, so there is just to much wear for me to be an AU. As far as die lapping, I see this on modern Lincoln cents regularly.
Could be lap marks because there are clash marks, but you would have to have it in hand to be able to tell just who did the sanding.
Thanks for all of the input. I agree with your grade analysis. I DO want the coin but not at the price listed. And that doesn't even account for the strong possibility that it's been cleaned. There is an OBO but for the amount I'll offer it will most likely be refused.
I've learned something new here on this post & thanks to Insider for this. Out of my element on die lapping but I can say, and w/o any doubt, this coin has been cleaned. For me, and me alone, I would not knowingly buy a cleaned coin, especially in this series. They are just beautiful to mess with like this. JMHO.
I placed a BO on the coin. It's on eBay (I suspect that's no surprise to anyone here). It was listed as AU and starting at $675. I noted to the seller that I thought it was more like XF and cleaned. So my BO was for low VF ($300; no response yet). Why so high? It's an R-4+ that I don't have for my set yet. In all of my collections this would be the first DETAILS coin. But I'll get it also with VarietyPlus (1835 Browning B-8). A bit tough to find. Whether I use it as a hole-filler or not will depend if I can find an original one. But for now it will do assuming I correctly ID'ed it. Actually I'd be surprised if the seller to accept my offer.
@kanga My unsolicited opinion: "It's an R-4+ that I don't have for my set yet." ALL things come to those who wait (and have your knowledge to find them). "In all of my collections this would be the first DETAILS coin." Then it does not fit in your set! "But I'll get it also with VarietyPlus (1835 Browning B-8). A bit tough to find." See comments above. "Whether I use it as a hole-filler or not will depend if I can find an original one. But for now it will do assuming I correctly ID'ed it." I certainly hope so, otherwise it is just a common quarter. Why not post a photo of both sides so all of us can verify your attribution. "Actually I'd be surprised if the seller to accept my offer." $300? IMO he is crazy if he turns you down due to its condition. I would take your offer in a heartbeat! Good Luck with your purchase. PS get a friend to offer him $175! It will make yours look crazy good.
Well, the purchase has become moot. The seller has turned down my BO. But I do appreciate the discussion, particularly the Die Lapped portion.
As did I. But then I've explained it what seems like a thousand times, on this very forum, and others. And for more years than I can remember. But yet every time I did I was told I was crazy and didn't know what I was talking about
