Did the Same Die Cutter Work on Both Coins ?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Al Kowsky, Sep 24, 2018.

  1. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    Earlier this I sold two Phoenician tetradrachms struck at the mint of Tyre, under the authority of Emperor Caracalla, c. 213-217 CE, see photos below. The coin on the left side is a profile view of Caracalla seen from behind, Prieur #1546A, 12.09 gm., & the coin on the right side is a profile view seen from the front, Prieur #1549 13.23 gm. The reverses on both, coins although struck from different dies, are amazingly similar & look like they could have been made by the same celator. The eagles, their size & layout, & the lettering look like they were done by the same hand. Despite the portraits being different they do share style similarities, & again the lettering style, size & layout look like they were done by the same hand. Any thoughts ? 100_4871.JPG 100_4877.JPG
     
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  3. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    Those are just beautiful. Yes, I think you are correct. It looks like the same hand to me. The stylistic flourishes in the lettering seem to match perfectly.
     
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  4. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Beautiful coins and it does look like it.
     
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  5. benhur767

    benhur767 Sapere aude

    Probably, based on numerous stylistic similarities.
     
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  6. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..they are most eye appealing both and do look quite similar of craft...i'd say yes.
     
  7. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    Looking at reverses, I would say yes, you're undoubtably right
    Looking at obverses, there's something very different in the way Caracalla's eyes are shaped and in the expression of the eyes that leads me to say no.
    But there might very well have been two different celators for obverse and reverse

    Q
     
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  8. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..i'd ask @Barry Murphy to ring in, but he's busy sorting Alexander Tets right now ^^
     
  9. Barry Murphy

    Barry Murphy Well-Known Member

    Most likely the same hand.

    Barry.
     
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  10. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    It looks like the reverses were cut by the same dude. Not so much the obverses.
     
  11. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I've noticed this kind of thing with Flavian coins too, almost to the point where I've become a fan of certain engravers.
     
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  12. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    For some reason this reminds me of my favorite college professor who was asked if Homer actually wrote the Iliad and Odyssey. He answered, "Or some other Greek by the same name." The point is we can never know for any given work just what was done that produced the end result and need to be careful not to jump to conclusions that mint A did things the same way that mint B did. I always like to tr to spot 'same hand' coins but have to admit they could be evidence of two students of the same master, the master and pupil or even the result of a workshop team effort. We can not prove that any die was done by just one hand. If I were running the operation and had apprentices to train, I could see having one do the hair and another the faces while a third did only lettering and a new kid put in the circle of dots. If you study the operation of modern art masters like Rodin you find the master's name on many things he never, himself, touched. Certainly there were operations with only one engraver and others with a large staff. In this case, I agree there is enough shown to support calling it 'same hand' but I hope we realize when we answer any question of this type we could be dealing with two (or more) Greeks with the 'same name'.
    For certain!
    I can not see how anyone could collect a specific series intently without having such thoughts but have been told by my 'betters' that such questions are a waste of time. I still have my favorites but mine are a century after the last Flavian.
     
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