Detecting Cleaned Coins

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Urban_Lawyer, Jul 8, 2012.

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  1. geekpryde

    geekpryde Husband and Father Moderator

    Here is a coin I consider harshly cleaned. Bought this against my better judgment, and now I looks at it every once and awhile and say "never again".

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    It is overly shiny and gross looking.

    These pics don't even show how bad the coin really is. Looks like a million scratches all over the entire coin. I don't know jack about cleaned coins. Can anyone tell how this coin was cleaned / polished?
     
    geekpryde, Jun 20, 2013
    #21 + Quote Reply
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  3. saltysam-1

    saltysam-1 Junior Member

    For a moment there I was concerned. I quickly glanced at the topic on this thread and thought my ignore setting wasn't working.
     
    saltysam-1, Jun 20, 2013
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  4. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That may be, but it still isn't due to die polishing. Die polish lines will never be found on the devices, not even on early coins. You may see die scratches on the devices, tool marks on them, and even die wear lines on them. But not die polish lines.
     
    GDJMSP, Jun 21, 2013
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  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It could have been any of a number of abrasives. Sandpaper, steel wool, emery cloth, tooth brush, polishing compounds, even ordinary cotton cloth. Any of them can do that.
     
    GDJMSP, Jun 21, 2013
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  6. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    I have this book in my library--it is a great resource about cleaning and the conservation of coins. To me, it is a must read, for folks who dabble in brilliant white coins that are 150 years old, or even older. One needs to learn the difference between a "quick dip" and a mechanical cleaning, using any abrasive substance:


    http://www.amazon.com/dp/0971392412 Coin Chemistry, not a commercial for Amazon.
     
    Morgandude11, Jun 21, 2013
    #25 + Quote Reply
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    And do you subscribe to the idea that the author of that book has - that all toned coins not only should be dipped but need to be dipped ?

    Granted and agreed, if you want to learn about the physical and chemical properties of toning, the hows & whys of it, then by all means buy the book. The author does a good job with that.

    But as for the rest, anybody that knows anything about coins thinks he's a nutcase.
     
    GDJMSP, Jun 21, 2013
    #26 + Quote Reply
  8. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    Do I think that his concept that all toned coins should be dipped is valid? No of course not, as I collect toned coins. I do agree with him that all shiny older coins have been dipped, and that he does have a good idea about the chemistry of coins. A nutcase? For suggesting that most older coins have been dipped? You have suggested that yourself. :)
     
    Morgandude11, Jun 21, 2013
    #27 + Quote Reply
  9. quartertapper

    quartertapper Numismatist

    The first bit of advice I'd offer is not to buy anything on ebay from a seller you can't trust. There are thousands of sellers there that are experts at taking good pictures of bad coins, and gambling the customer will never notice, or figure it out too late.
    I personally would invest in a strong magnifying glass and a bright light, then visit your local coin shop and purposely buy a few cleaned coins and go to work.
     
    quartertapper, Jun 22, 2013
    #28 + Quote Reply
  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Uhhhh - and where did I say that ? The first sentence in my post is why they think he's a nutcase - nothing else.
     
    GDJMSP, Jun 22, 2013
    #29 + Quote Reply
  11. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    You have very often said (just like most of us) that almost all of the coins that are 150+ years old have been dipped or conserved so as to achieve the shinyness of newly minted coins. C'mon that is ordinary common sense--especially for Silver and Copper, both of whom are extremely vulnerable to environmental conditions.
     
    Morgandude11, Jun 22, 2013
    #30 + Quote Reply
  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yeah I know I have. But in your previous comment it seemed like you were saying that I was saying that White was nutcase for saying that. And nothing could be further from the truth.

    I was saying White is a nutcase because he thinks any and all toned coins are damaged coins and that all toned coins not only should be dipped but they actually need to be dipped !

    In other words, and I thought I made this pretty clear in my first post on the subject, there is a lot of good information, accurate information, in White's book. But readers of that book, especially newbies and those unfamiliar with toning, need to be careful and make sure they understand that there is some bad stuff in that book too.
     
    GDJMSP, Jun 22, 2013
    #31 + Quote Reply
  13. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    Ok, then we agree. I disagree with White that all toned coins are damaged coins, but I wouldn't call him a "nutcase." Lots of collectors (NOT ME, obviously) think that way, and want only brilliant white "blazers." So, this is a pretty prevalent attitude in the hobby. Other than this point, I think we're in agreement. White does know his chemistry, so that is what I see that is valuable in the book.
     
    Morgandude11, Jun 22, 2013
    #32 + Quote Reply
  14. spock1k

    spock1k King of Hearts

    toning is but a step towards corrosion sooner or later it will have to be dipped :D
     
    spock1k, Jun 22, 2013
    #33 + Quote Reply
  15. longnine009

    longnine009 Darwin has to eat too. Supporter

    Why?
     
    longnine009, Jun 22, 2013
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  16. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Because toning can only be slowed down, it can never stopped. And eventually all toning will reach its terminal stage where it is destroying the metal.

    But with proper storage, it'll never happen in any of our lifetimes.
     
    GDJMSP, Jun 22, 2013
    #35 + Quote Reply
  17. longnine009

    longnine009 Darwin has to eat too. Supporter

    GDJMSP #35
    Supposedly rusting re-bar will arrest once
    concrete is poured and the air cut off. Seems
    like the same thing should occur on a coin if
    the toning is heavy enough-a case where less
    never was more, more is more.
     
    longnine009, Jun 22, 2013
    #36 + Quote Reply
  18. LindeDad

    LindeDad His Walker.

    I wish this really worked as I got some back awhile back and I still haven't figured where the cleaning is at. BTW a couple of them sold and went to be graded again as the new owners agreed with me that maybe it wasn't done right the first time.:(
     
    LindeDad, Jun 22, 2013
    #37 + Quote Reply
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yeah sure, toning will stop if you can cut off the air. But that is precisely the problem, there are no airtight containers. But if you want to encase your coins in lucite like used to be done, yup, that'll work.
     
    GDJMSP, Jun 23, 2013
    #38 + Quote Reply
  20. girldly

    girldly Girldly

    See the Morgan I use as my avatar? Well, it has turned black....what can I do?
     
    girldly, Aug 17, 2016
    #39 + Quote Reply
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