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Message:: [QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 2016832, member: 112"]You already know the answer Paul so why ask ? But for those who don't, it was before 2004. There is if you were there because you saw it with your own eyes. I was, were you ? There are also written records to prove it. And the Heritage archives go back to the 90's, but I'll grant you there are not as many of them from back then. But if all else fails Paul, you could also ask other people who there, people whose opinions you respect and trust. They will tell you the same thing I am. When you loosen grading standards it is not only the coins in lower MS grades that go up. The number of coins in 65 and up also increase generally of equal proportion. And the previous conditional rarities are replaced with new conditional rarities in even higher grades. Bottom line, nothing changes and the variances remain. Yeah, I've seen Saints with high point wear in old holders too. And the reason you see them today is because they were over-graded then. So they are left in those holders. And there were no where near as many of them as there are in new holders today. Like I told once before Paul, come to the FUN show, and I walk the floor with you and show you Saints that do not have high point wear. The claim that PCGS makes that the only Saints that do not have high point wear are the counterfeits - is false.[/QUOTE]