Define Market Grading

Another dodge ? Paul, if NGC has no published standards how can anyone, including me, list what the differences in those standards are ? They can't, all anyone can do is give an opinion based on perception. But I'll answer your question, if I had to pick just one series I'd say Lincoln cents probably qualify. And there are many others who would probably say the same thing. I know for a fact there are several members on this forum who think so.

But the main point is this Paul, that NGC and PCGS use different grading standards. That's all I said. Are you trying to claim they do not ?

If so then I do believe this an example of where you differ from the majority of those in numismatics. You said yourself, the differences are subtle. But even if they are subtle there are still differences, which all I said - that they are different.

I'm not claiming that one company is better than the other. Both companies have their pluses and minuses. The general market perception is that on some series NGC has tougher standards, and on some series PCGS has tougher standards. And in numerous threads right here on this forum when the question is asked which is better, which is tougher - it doesn't matter how you word the question it's still the same question - the outcome is almost always the same. About the same number of people will choose NGC as there that choose PCGS. And if you go ask on the NGC forum the majority will pick NGC, and on the PCGS forum the majority will pick PCGS. Or are you going to deny that too ? All I am saying is that the two companies are different and each uses different grading standards.

But this thread is not about which TPG is tougher or better than another. This thread is about market grading, about what market grading actually is and how it is defined. It is about where the market grading system came from, how it was developed, who developed it, and how it differs from the grading system we had before - technical grading.

 

Nobody said it is about the "good ole days". But it is a fact, a documented fact, that market grading did not exist until 1896. The ANA will tell you that, PCGS will tell you that, and NGC will tell you that. Prior to 1986 the only grading system that existed was technical grading.

And it's not about being dogmatic, it's about presenting the facts of history. About telling the story of what actually happened and when. It's about a grading system, what it is and what it isn't.

And it's not about the "bad" TPGs either Dave. Or about how much better it was before the TPGs came along. I don't why, but it seems you can't ever get it through your head even though I have stated it many, many, times. It is my opinion, and it has always been my opinion, that the TPGs are the best thing that ever happened to this hobby. Do I need to repeat it one more time ?

 

Paul, I have said many times that the TPGs have changed their graded standards several times, not just once. You mention above the change when they stopped using the "rattler" slab. That their standards were loosened then. But what the OGH, the old green holder ? Is it not the market's perception that the TPGs also loosened their grading standards when they stopped using the OGH ? Is it not and was it not for many years the market's perception that coins in the OGH would be upgraded by PCGS if cracked out and resubmitted ? Seems to me you've even agreed that was so yourself. But do you know when that change took place Paul, or do you deny that it happened ? That there was no change, no loosening of grading standards ? Well, just so you know, that change, and pretty much the entire market agrees there was a change, that change took place in 1998. That's how long the OGH was used. And that is documented in Conder101's book.

So that would make at least 2 times that PCGS changed/loosened, their grading standards wouldn't it ?

No as for this book by James Halperin that you mentioned as being written in 1985 - do you mean this book ?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0933372027/jameslhalpe

The one that was not published until 1990 ? And yeah Paul, I have an original copy even signed by the author, and it's copyright is 1990, just like the one found at that link above. Four years after market grading had been invented. So it would be kind of hard for it to be -

- don't ya think ? Seeing as how they both existed for 3 and 4 years before the book was even published ?

But you are correct about one thing, James Halperin played a big part in developing market grading. His name is among the first listed in the ANA book as being essential to the development of market grading. He helped write it.

 

Dave, I am not talking about what you call the Doug grading scale. All I am doing is presenting historical facts. Now if you want to disagree with those, have at it. But I can't help it if you don't like them.

 

Nope I have no problem Paul, I was unaware that he wrote it under a different title. And thank you for pointing it out.

See how easy that is ? You should try it sometime

And you didn't answer my question about the old green holders. Did ya forget ?