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Message:: [QUOTE="Insider, post: 2786094, member: 24314"]moneycostingmemoney, posted: "Yeah, I heard a podcast a while ago (CoinWeek Apr 15, 2016) and it was an interview with Don Willis of PCGS. He was asked, a couple times, what the restoration process entails with PCGS. All he would really say is that nothing is added to the coin to improve its surface. That tells me that something is being removed. So is it only acceptable for a TPG to shave a "layer" of the surface of a coin off, chemically or mechanically, to make it pretty again?" Anyone can learn how to clean (conserve) a coin.  When it is done in a way that it is virtually undetectable, it is a good thing. So, if no one can prove the coin is not in its original state - either unc or circulated, it is considered a natural coin no matter what was done to it - even if lubricated fingers were involved!<img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> Cleaning coins properly is as closely a guarded secret as artificially toning a coin. Well almost.  Actually not really as many attempt to do it and like to spread their ideas on how to clean a coin.  Unfortunately, most of these attempts are easily detected. Cleaning removes things from a coin. The only thing added is what is used in the process.  Adding anything else is either a repair or fraudulent surface alteration. "And as long as they are providing this service are they guaranteeing the coin to grade higher and, in turn, be more valuable?" This is incorrect.  There is no guarantee of the outcome; however, if they continuously ruined coins, it would hurt business.  Now, Only a fool <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie30" alt=":bucktooth:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> would think that a conservation service would not be a little more tolerant of the actual condition of a coin that they conserved.  Upgrades are not handed out unless the coin upgrades. "If this service is provided by the same TPG grading it will they mark the label "cleaned" or "restored" or does it just get slabbed with the higher grade and they call it a job well done?" Answered above. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie8" alt=":D" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> "If a restored coin was sent to another TPG as a crossover and it came back "cleaned" would you ask the restoring TPG for your money back?" You can ask for anything but you will not get it!  This sort of thing goes on all the time. One service will slab a coin as original; yet if the identical coin (graded original by another service) was sent to them, there is a chance they will reject it.  <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie46" alt=":facepalm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> "Would you crack it out then send it in to keep a TPG from making a statement with your investment? And, again, if it came back "cleaned" would you ask the restoring TPG for your money back?" IMO, always better to send a coin in "raw" except in cases where the coin is "honest" and graded correctly.  Then keep it in its slab.  This does not go for SEGS, ICG, or ANACS.  Always send these in "raw."  Why should NGC or PCGS let you know that the second tier services grade the same but cheaper and faster! moneycostingmemoney, posted: "I'm not good at spotting the MS echelon, but if it's cleaned, by collector or TPG, the label should reflect it as such. Just sayin." Not at all.  You'll need to learn/understand the difference between "Improved eye appeal -no harm done" vs "impaired." I NOMINATE THIS FOR FEATURED POST: imrich, posted: "I'll attempt to simply answer your general questions, and others will probably amplify/elaborate. The subject of cleaning/conservation in the Numismatic "industry" is akin to the practice of law in the legal "industry". Anyone can do it, but if the process isn't as a group of "practitioners" dictates, the outcome may not be acceptable in the "industry". It's believed that the general public doesn't understand the services of a TPG and its affiliate "conservators". I believe that like death and taxes, the only absolutes when utilizing a TPG is that you'll get an opinion, for which you'll pay a fee. The TPG will attempt to authenticate, and affiliate conservators may attempt to suspend deterioration without further damage. I bekieve one will find there aren't any other absolute guarantees, nor should one expect same by the inferred/stated "limited" guarantees. I believe one will determine that there aren't uniform industry standards for grading by the TPG, and there's appreciable competition between same. The industry is generally unregulated, so to expect any community cooperation when discussing similarities/differences, may result in frustration, possibly hostilities. The "cross-over" process may be found generally futile and quite expensive." AND ADD THIS TO IT: eddiespin, posted: "Actually, no it is not. That is a definition for simply the sake of a definition. "Cleaning" has meaning to collectors only in so far as it describes attributes of the coin that have been compromised or disturbed. That is the reason coins are labeled "cleaned." They are labeled "cleaned" for and only for encompassing those noticeable, objectively-verifiable attributes. It is those attributes, and not the label, that are/is meaningful. Am I making any sense at all?" PS I too think one coin can be saved and passed as original. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie8" alt=":D" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />[/QUOTE]

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