Define "Cleaning."

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Insider, Jun 22, 2017.

  1. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    There is a discussion taking place - "Has my coin been cleaned." I have not read the entire thread yet I'll bet no poster has bothered to define what they are posting about: CLEANING.

    I challenge members to help them out using this thread.

    Each of you who take this challenge is the grading class instructor. I challenge you to define "Cleaning" in one sentence for your students.

    Do not mention anything about coins because we clean many things.

    PS I just came up with a pretty good one in less than a minute after writing the sentence above. The secret is to keep it general and simple. While this thread is running, I'm going to "polish" it up. :smuggrin:

    Hint. In the 1970's a grading instructor pulled this definition of "Grading" out of thin air. It's so simple, I've never forgotten it.

    Grading is a subjective observation made to assess the condition of preservation and relative ranking among similar objects.

    Now, do the same for cleaning if you dare to try. Keep it short, simple, and no mention of coins! :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
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  3. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot Supporter

    Cleaning - A process by which an item is liberated from any debris, dirt, or other unwanted material or finish.
     
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  4. Johndoe2000$

    Johndoe2000$ Well-Known Member

    To remove foreign materials/substances.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  5. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Cleaning is an attempt to restore an item to a new or improved appearance by means of various techniques.
     
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  6. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    When I was a kid, I remember first hearing the expression "foreign material". I thought it was imported.
     
  7. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Well, to keep it consistent with my definition in the other thread:

    "Cleaning" is an abrasive process of removing unwanted material which results in permanent and noticeable damage.

    Anything else is "restoration."
     
  8. Johndoe2000$

    Johndoe2000$ Well-Known Member

    Wow, you were once a kid? :D
     
  9. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    50's and early 60's. I really liked Ike. The first argument I ever remember between my parents was my mom liked Nixon and my dad backed Kennedy in 1960. Then came 1964, dad was a Goldwater man and peace prevailed from then on. I wore a Goldwater pin to school in an inner city school and instantly got beat up. Took all of 3 hours.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
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  10. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Here's the rub. In every day language, differences in terminology might be benign. You can pretty much call a pet alligator your dog, if you want to. But in a hobby context, and ESPECIALLY in a textual context, adhering to standard language is VERY important. Words mean things, important things, and having your own language to describe things that other people use differently is fundamentally damaging to the hobby. We NEED standardized language in numismatics, and people who want to be considered serious numismatists have two choices - 1) adopt standardized language, or 2) spend half your time defining your terms.

    This "hippie dippie" "do your own thang" ethos has no place in this hobby.
     
  11. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Not "conservation" or even the uber-snooty "curation"? I might have gone for one of those.
     
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  12. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Since "cleaning" a fish means essentially disemboweling the poor thing, let's stipulate it's not that we're talking about.

    Mmm. Fresh sea food.
     
  13. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Johndoe2000$, posted: "To remove foreign materials/substances."

    This is NOT a definition. :( It is a reason to clean something. Usually a definition starts out: CLEANING IS... Please try again, there are some good replies and one is very close to the one I thought of. The reason most will come close to writing the same definition is the we all know what cleaning is. The trick is to put what we know into simple words that a student can understand. ;)

    TypeCoin971793, posted: "Well, to keep it consistent with my definition in the other thread:

    "Cleaning" is an abrasive process of removing unwanted material which results in permanent and noticeable damage. Anything else is "restoration."

    Sorry I didn't read the thread yet. IMO, this definition is close but incomplete and flawed. Using your words plus mine, see if this is better: "Cleaning" is a abrasive process of removing unwanted material which results in permanent and noticeable damage. Anything else is "restoration." from an item.

    I'll post my definition (for what its worth) later in case other members care to try the challenge. I think we have already have a good one above.

    PS "Proper" cleaning damages nothing. In fact, you can only guess the item has been cleaned. Example: My glasses are dirty. I just cleaned them. No damage visible. If you didn't know my glasses were dirty before I cleaned them, you would never guess I was such a slob. :facepalm::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
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  14. samclemens3991

    samclemens3991 Well-Known Member

    Altering a surface either mechanically, chemically or both.
     
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  15. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    All cleaning is a process by which, within the boundaries of a limited system, entropy (disorder) is hopefully reduced at the cost of the generation of waste heat, which is excluded from the boundaries of the system in question by intentional exclusion.

    Damage is what happens when the attempt to reduce entropy is foiled.
     
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  16. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    This is not an advanced grading class. Every student is looking around at each other without a clue to what you just said. :hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:
     
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  17. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    As others have mentioned, "cleaning" in relation to numismatics, is an abrasive method of removing unwanted debris from a coin's surface thus causing unwanted and unnatural surfaces as a result. "restoration" is a non-abrasive method of removing unwanted items on a coin's surface without causing any abrasive damage to the surfaces. Both of these methods produce altered surfaces which may or may not cause unwanted damage.
     
  18. Johndoe2000$

    Johndoe2000$ Well-Known Member

    I was actually replying to the thread title." DEFINE CLEANING" , not writing an essay. o_O and I've noticed that some used the word "item" to describe what is being cleaned. Are people, pets, etc... considered. Items?
    "I clean, therefore I am." :wideyed:
    To appease the grammar powers that be, CLEANING IS... removing foreign objects/ materials. :)
    Now do I at least get a passing grade? :D
     
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  19. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    And THAT, kind sir, is the world as it should be, and the way I aim to make it each day.

    I have something approaching zero interest in interacting with the "common man".
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  20. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    This is too long and too complicated.

    chascat, posted: "As others have mentioned, "cleaning" in relation to numismatics, is a abrasive method of removing unwanted debris from a coin's surface thus causing unwanted and unnatural surfaces as a result."

    From what I have learned in class and through experience, you probably should have stopped there. The rest of your post is not entirely correct including the following:

    "restoration" is a non-abrasive method of removing unwanted items on a coin's surface without causing any abrasive damage to the surfaces. Both of these methods produce altered surfaces which may or may not cause unwanted damage."
     
  21. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot Supporter

    I don't mind scratching my head and wondering, Kurt, but it would be helpful if, at the end of the day, it was de-cipher-able and made sense.

    But maybe that's just me
     
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