Define a “cleaned” coin

Define ruined. Like you mean they completely gooned the process and made a mistake or they uncovered a new issue when the toning was removed? If they mess up like oh we shouldn’t have done that you should get some compensation. If it’s just a new issue uncovered then I believe that’s the risk you agreed too

Like anything else they have messed up before but it’s rare.

 

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I've been looking over my silver purchase records from 2011.

And 2012.

And 2013.

Please understand that you cannot count on "inevitably rising" PM prices to unearth you from a bad initial purchase.

 

Maybe the question we should be asking is not "How do you define cleaning?" I think the better question is "Does a method of cleaning cause 'harm' to a coin?"

My preference is not to dip, wash, brush or manipulate the surface of a coin in any way. In an older coin's journey, it probably has already been manipulated in some way a time or two. This is why when I buy a coin, I buy it because it appeals to me in raw form doing my best to buy a coin with original look and luster.

If I send a coin in to be graded, as I have done on rare occasion, I prepare myself in advance for what I like to call the "umpire effect," as wxcoin so aptly pointed out:

In the end, maybe the solution is that if you must clean, collect tokens.

 

No, those are exactly the worst places to watch. As silver tumbled from nearly $50 back to $15, they never stopped trumpeting MANIPULATION, PAPER MARKET, STRONG HANDS.

But that's a topic for the Bullion forum. I'll stop threadjacking now.

 

Here’s all people need to know about silver. All the people screaming manipulation and that it’ll only go up in value ect ect will sell you as much as you want for dollars. If they believed what they say they’d be hoarding it

 

This is exactly how I view cleaning. There is no black and white because otherwise the same coin wouldn’t come back cleaned one day and straight graded the next. For me it’s a continuum, with whizzed or scrubbed with a Brillo pad on one, always unacceptable, end and dipped on the other, usually acceptable, end. Everything else appears to be a judgment call with the TPG’s depending on severity and sometimes also on the series.

 

"92|N-2 Cleaned – surface damage due to a harsh, abrasive cleaning"

Thank you for the definitive physical grading standard! Correct me if I misunderstand, but isn't that declaration PCGSs? Does NGC have an identical public declaration, or use same?

 

Yea thats the PCGS code. No NGC doesn't publicly reveal the details ones as far as I can find.

https://www.pcgs.com/grades

https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/grading-scale/

 

The current PCGS cleaning definition they have up is

"Cleaning
Surface damage due to any form of abrasive cleaning. "Cleaned" covers a wide range or appearances, from a grossly polished coin to one where faint hairlines can be seen only at a particular angle or in only one area on an otherwise perfectly normal coin. This is perhaps the most frustrating of all the No Grades, because subtle cleaning is often difficult to detect in less-than-optimal grading conditions. "Dipping" (the removal of toning with a chemical bath) is not considered cleaning under this definition."

 

Thank you for the link, as I needed a public statement by the pre-eminent TPG firms that a physical intentional (i.e. having a detectable linear pattern, generally of consistent depth, residue, or luster discontinuities) to declare "CLEANED", thus: "CLEANED - A coin exhibiting abrasive or chemical cleaning." (per NGC published standards).

 

I guess silver jewelry liquid is ok

 

i dont know about you but. I dont look at cleaning. Not there yet. I'm at field scratches, to me cleaning is over rated.

 

Oops. 4 pages. IMO

 

You guys love pretty coins as much as i do. I answered OP. Now I'll read. Opps again

 

I was more meaning, "We tried to conserve this coin, but failed and made it look like a cleaned coin...Oops"

 

I love me some kent9

 

So, would it be better to send coins to PCGS than NGC to be graded if a coin obviously hasn't been abrasively cleaned? Is PCGS more likely to give dipped coins a pass?

 

Properly dipped coins look mint fresh. They will both straight grade dipped coins that were done properly. This is the thing some of us have been trying to get across for a long time in these threads that certain people just completely ignore and keep coming back saying dipping ruins coins.

 

• These brushes are made of animal hair that is so soft it can't leave any traces on the coin, like hairlines. And the solvents that they use on these brushes is engineered to not leave holes in the face of the coin, like dipping does.​