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<p>[QUOTE="Sulla80, post: 4858135, member: 99456"]<b>No, not that "Dating"</b></p><p>I realize my title may be a bit ambiguous, this thread has nothing to do with Caracalla's love life, or Plautilla and her relationship with Caracalla (a sad story for which there are other threads and books e.g. <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/the-saddest-couple-in-ancient-roman-history-plautilla-wedding-denarius.284234/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/the-saddest-couple-in-ancient-roman-history-plautilla-wedding-denarius.284234/">thread</a> from [USER=76194]@Sallent[/USER], and <a href="https://archive.org/details/romanempressesor02servuoft/page/222/mode/2up" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://archive.org/details/romanempressesor02servuoft/page/222/mode/2up" rel="nofollow">this book</a>).</p><p><img src="https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/plautilla-hair-jpg.1010394/" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p><b>What date for this coin?</b></p><p>Instead, this post is focused on trying to decide - "<i>could I narrow the date range for my coin</i>". In <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/review-for-fans-of-caracalla.296025/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/review-for-fans-of-caracalla.296025/">Review: For "Fans" of Caracalla</a> from [USER=32619]@Jwt708[/USER] , there was discussion of portrait types for Caracalla and coins promoting harmony between Caracalla and Geta. The thread prompted a closer look at a Roman provincial coin from Augusta Traiana, wondering "how close to the death of Septimius was the minting of this coin"?</p><p><br /></p><p>Although the my coin is undated, the portrait does provide some clues. I decided to compare portraits of Caracalla from Augusta Traiana, across ~250 coins in each of <a href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=Augusta%20Traiana%20caracalla&category=1-2&en=1&de=1&fr=1&it=1&es=1&ot=1&images=1&thesaurus=1&order=0&currency=usd&company=" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=Augusta%20Traiana%20caracalla&category=1-2&en=1&de=1&fr=1&it=1&es=1&ot=1&images=1&thesaurus=1&order=0&currency=usd&company=" rel="nofollow">ACSearch</a> and <a href="https://www.corpus-nummorum.eu/coins?/coins&/coins&/coins&search=augusta+traiana+caracalla&view=thr_coins&sort=id&order=asc&user=&tablet=&range=90" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.corpus-nummorum.eu/coins?/coins&/coins&/coins&search=augusta+traiana+caracalla&view=thr_coins&sort=id&order=asc&user=&tablet=&range=90" rel="nofollow">Corpus Nummorum</a>.</p><p><br /></p><p><b>Sequence of Portraits for Caracalla</b></p><p>After picking a few representative portrait types for Augusta Traiana, I found <a href="https://www.academia.edu/4470309/Portraittypen_des_Caracalla_und_des_Geta_auf_r%C3%B6mischen_Reichspr%C3%A4gungen_Definition_eines_neuen_Caesartyps_des_Caracalla_und_eines_neuen_Augustustyps_des_Geta" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.academia.edu/4470309/Portraittypen_des_Caracalla_und_des_Geta_auf_r%C3%B6mischen_Reichspr%C3%A4gungen_Definition_eines_neuen_Caesartyps_des_Caracalla_und_eines_neuen_Augustustyps_des_Geta" rel="nofollow">this 2014 study</a>, written in German, with beautiful pictures of coins and a detailed portrait study from Andreas Pangerl, "<a href="https://www.academia.edu/4470309/Portraittypen_des_Caracalla_und_des_Geta_auf_r%C3%B6mischen_Reichspr%C3%A4gungen_Definition_eines_neuen_Caesartyps_des_Caracalla_und_eines_neuen_Augustustyps_des_Geta" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.academia.edu/4470309/Portraittypen_des_Caracalla_und_des_Geta_auf_r%C3%B6mischen_Reichspr%C3%A4gungen_Definition_eines_neuen_Caesartyps_des_Caracalla_und_eines_neuen_Augustustyps_des_Geta" rel="nofollow">Roman Imperial Portrait Types of Caracalla and Geta</a>". I used the portraits from this article as my timeline. Here is the rough progression of portraits from Augusta Traiana that I assembled with the dated Roman mint coins aligned.</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1173020[/ATTACH]</p><p>Here's the summary of how Pangerl classifies the portraits of Geta and Caracalla:</p><ul> <li>Children<ul> <li>with short hair (<b>Caracalla Type 1</b>, Geta Type 1)</li> <li>with curly hair (<b>Caracalla Type 2</b>)</li> </ul></li> <li>Adolescent to adult with short hair<ul> <li>no beard (<b>Caracalla Type 3</b>, Geta Type 2)</li> <li>with sideburns (<b>Caracalla Type 4</b>, Geta Type 3)</li> <li>with cheekbones without a mustache (<b>Caracalla Type 5</b>, Geta Type 4)</li> <li>with cheekbones and mustache (<b>Caracalla Type 6</b>, Geta Type 5)</li> <li>short full beard (Geta Type 6)</li> <li>with long full beard and fringes (only Geta type 7 looking a lot like his father)</li> <li>short full beard + laurel wreath begins on coins - starts in 209, probably with get raised to Augustus, youthful and emotionless (<b>Caracalla Type 7</b>)</li> <li>short full beard, deep forehead wrinkles, "wild" facial expression starting 212 -(<b>Caracalla type 8</b>)</li> <li>short full beard, less pronounced forehead wrinkles – starting 213-214 (<b>Caracalla Type 9</b>)</li> </ul></li> </ul><p>He also considers another type for Caracalla looking "exhausted or resigned" starting in 217, but considers it too close to Type 9 to separate. There is an interesting suggestion in the paper: Geta's portraits may suggest the Geta was attempting to overthrow his brother, portraying himself as "Septimius-like".</p><p><br /></p><p>My provincial portrait seems to align well with portrait type 7 for Caracalla which becomes increasingly difficult to distinguish from portrait type 6 of Geta as political messaging focused on secure succession with two Augusti, i.e. AD 209-211.</p><p><br /></p><p><b>Additional notes</b></p><p>There is an Augusta Traiana <a href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3581644" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3581644" rel="nofollow">coin of Geta</a>, as Augustus, with a portrait very similar to the one of Caracalla on my coin. Which I will link to discussion from Pangerl "At the death of Severus in February 211, the portraits of the two brothers can hardly be distinguished from one another" politically supporting the decision that the two would be together successors.</p><p><img src="https://www.acsearch.info/media/images/archive/12/3516/3581644.s.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p>I found two additional reverses that seem to be associated with the same obverse die, although I don't see any additional date information from these matches. (<a href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3011130" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3011130" rel="nofollow">match1</a>?, <a href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1196098" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1196098" rel="nofollow">match2</a>?)</p><p><br /></p><p>Aligned with the portraits, the sharing of the globe on the reverse, seems to suggest the time when both were Augusti, if not the period when they co-ruled after Septimius. Both also shown with laurel wreaths on the reverse.</p><p><br /></p><p><b>The coin</b></p><p>Here is the coin of Caracalla as Augustus with the two loving brothers sharing a globe. This seems to be a very rare coin - only one, possibly two, others that I have found of this type, other than this coin, both with matching dies (<a href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1645289" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1645289" rel="nofollow">one</a> in ACSearch). The exact coin not listed in Varbanov, however Corpus Nummorum has a coin that also looks like it might be the same dies (<a href="https://www.corpus-nummorum.eu/coins?id=9817" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.corpus-nummorum.eu/coins?id=9817" rel="nofollow">CN 9717</a>).</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1173021[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>Thrace, Augusta Traiana, Caracalla</b> (198-217)</p><p><b>Obv:</b> AVT K M AVPH ANTΩNINOC, laureate bust right, with slight drapery.</p><p><b>Rev:</b> AVΓOVCTHC TPAIANHC, Caracalla and Geta standing facing one another, both togate holding globe</p><p><b>Ref:</b> Varbanov 1092 (unlisted variant, no globe), <a href="https://www.corpus-nummorum.eu/coins?id=9817" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.corpus-nummorum.eu/coins?id=9817" rel="nofollow">CN 9717</a> (same dies?)</p><p><b>Note</b>: Could the globe be a die break? Possibly, I was not able to find a die match without the globe. Without more evidence, I will assume the globe is intentional. And for anyone who didn't fall asleep well before this point, this coin also reminds me of <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/victory-shoots-and-scores.363248/#post-4624062" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/victory-shoots-and-scores.363248/#post-4624062">a post</a> from [USER=82616]@David Atherton[/USER], although I remain skeptical of the idea that this coin shows Caracalla stealing the basketball from Geta.</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1172930[/ATTACH]</p><p><b>Conclusion</b></p><p>With all of this, I have reasonable confidence that I can narrow this coin's date to the time period between Geta rising to Augustus (end of AD 209) and Geta's death (December, AD 211), and perhaps even a bit closer, before or after, to the death of Septimius Severus.</p><p><br /></p><p>Any advice or comments on the logic of dating applied or anything else in this post, is always much appreciated, as are references to other resources on the coins of Augusta Triaina. <b> Post anything you find interesting or entertaining.</b>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Sulla80, post: 4858135, member: 99456"][B]No, not that "Dating"[/B] I realize my title may be a bit ambiguous, this thread has nothing to do with Caracalla's love life, or Plautilla and her relationship with Caracalla (a sad story for which there are other threads and books e.g. [URL='https://www.cointalk.com/threads/the-saddest-couple-in-ancient-roman-history-plautilla-wedding-denarius.284234/']thread[/URL] from [USER=76194]@Sallent[/USER], and [URL='https://archive.org/details/romanempressesor02servuoft/page/222/mode/2up']this book[/URL]). [IMG]https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/plautilla-hair-jpg.1010394/[/IMG] [B]What date for this coin?[/B] Instead, this post is focused on trying to decide - "[I]could I narrow the date range for my coin[/I]". In [URL='https://www.cointalk.com/threads/review-for-fans-of-caracalla.296025/']Review: For "Fans" of Caracalla[/URL] from [USER=32619]@Jwt708[/USER] , there was discussion of portrait types for Caracalla and coins promoting harmony between Caracalla and Geta. The thread prompted a closer look at a Roman provincial coin from Augusta Traiana, wondering "how close to the death of Septimius was the minting of this coin"? Although the my coin is undated, the portrait does provide some clues. I decided to compare portraits of Caracalla from Augusta Traiana, across ~250 coins in each of [URL='https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=Augusta%20Traiana%20caracalla&category=1-2&en=1&de=1&fr=1&it=1&es=1&ot=1&images=1&thesaurus=1&order=0¤cy=usd&company=']ACSearch[/URL] and [URL='https://www.corpus-nummorum.eu/coins?/coins&/coins&/coins&search=augusta+traiana+caracalla&view=thr_coins&sort=id&order=asc&user=&tablet=&range=90']Corpus Nummorum[/URL]. [B]Sequence of Portraits for Caracalla[/B] After picking a few representative portrait types for Augusta Traiana, I found [URL='https://www.academia.edu/4470309/Portraittypen_des_Caracalla_und_des_Geta_auf_r%C3%B6mischen_Reichspr%C3%A4gungen_Definition_eines_neuen_Caesartyps_des_Caracalla_und_eines_neuen_Augustustyps_des_Geta']this 2014 study[/URL], written in German, with beautiful pictures of coins and a detailed portrait study from Andreas Pangerl, "[URL='https://www.academia.edu/4470309/Portraittypen_des_Caracalla_und_des_Geta_auf_r%C3%B6mischen_Reichspr%C3%A4gungen_Definition_eines_neuen_Caesartyps_des_Caracalla_und_eines_neuen_Augustustyps_des_Geta']Roman Imperial Portrait Types of Caracalla and Geta[/URL]". I used the portraits from this article as my timeline. Here is the rough progression of portraits from Augusta Traiana that I assembled with the dated Roman mint coins aligned. [ATTACH=full]1173020[/ATTACH] Here's the summary of how Pangerl classifies the portraits of Geta and Caracalla: [LIST] [*]Children [LIST] [*]with short hair ([B]Caracalla Type 1[/B], Geta Type 1) [*]with curly hair ([B]Caracalla Type 2[/B]) [/LIST] [*]Adolescent to adult with short hair [LIST] [*]no beard ([B]Caracalla Type 3[/B], Geta Type 2) [*]with sideburns ([B]Caracalla Type 4[/B], Geta Type 3) [*]with cheekbones without a mustache ([B]Caracalla Type 5[/B], Geta Type 4) [*]with cheekbones and mustache ([B]Caracalla Type 6[/B], Geta Type 5) [*]short full beard (Geta Type 6) [*]with long full beard and fringes (only Geta type 7 looking a lot like his father) [*]short full beard + laurel wreath begins on coins - starts in 209, probably with get raised to Augustus, youthful and emotionless ([B]Caracalla Type 7[/B]) [*]short full beard, deep forehead wrinkles, "wild" facial expression starting 212 -([B]Caracalla type 8[/B]) [*]short full beard, less pronounced forehead wrinkles – starting 213-214 ([B]Caracalla Type 9[/B]) [/LIST] [/LIST] He also considers another type for Caracalla looking "exhausted or resigned" starting in 217, but considers it too close to Type 9 to separate. There is an interesting suggestion in the paper: Geta's portraits may suggest the Geta was attempting to overthrow his brother, portraying himself as "Septimius-like". My provincial portrait seems to align well with portrait type 7 for Caracalla which becomes increasingly difficult to distinguish from portrait type 6 of Geta as political messaging focused on secure succession with two Augusti, i.e. AD 209-211. [B]Additional notes[/B] There is an Augusta Traiana [URL='https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3581644']coin of Geta[/URL], as Augustus, with a portrait very similar to the one of Caracalla on my coin. Which I will link to discussion from Pangerl "At the death of Severus in February 211, the portraits of the two brothers can hardly be distinguished from one another" politically supporting the decision that the two would be together successors. [IMG]https://www.acsearch.info/media/images/archive/12/3516/3581644.s.jpg[/IMG] I found two additional reverses that seem to be associated with the same obverse die, although I don't see any additional date information from these matches. ([URL='https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3011130']match1[/URL]?, [URL='https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1196098']match2[/URL]?) Aligned with the portraits, the sharing of the globe on the reverse, seems to suggest the time when both were Augusti, if not the period when they co-ruled after Septimius. Both also shown with laurel wreaths on the reverse. [B]The coin[/B] Here is the coin of Caracalla as Augustus with the two loving brothers sharing a globe. This seems to be a very rare coin - only one, possibly two, others that I have found of this type, other than this coin, both with matching dies ([URL='https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1645289']one[/URL] in ACSearch). The exact coin not listed in Varbanov, however Corpus Nummorum has a coin that also looks like it might be the same dies ([URL='https://www.corpus-nummorum.eu/coins?id=9817']CN 9717[/URL]). [ATTACH=full]1173021[/ATTACH] [B]Thrace, Augusta Traiana, Caracalla[/B] (198-217) [B]Obv:[/B] AVT K M AVPH ANTΩNINOC, laureate bust right, with slight drapery. [B]Rev:[/B] AVΓOVCTHC TPAIANHC, Caracalla and Geta standing facing one another, both togate holding globe [B]Ref:[/B] Varbanov 1092 (unlisted variant, no globe), [URL='https://www.corpus-nummorum.eu/coins?id=9817']CN 9717[/URL] (same dies?) [B]Note[/B]: Could the globe be a die break? Possibly, I was not able to find a die match without the globe. Without more evidence, I will assume the globe is intentional. And for anyone who didn't fall asleep well before this point, this coin also reminds me of [URL='https://www.cointalk.com/threads/victory-shoots-and-scores.363248/#post-4624062']a post[/URL] from [USER=82616]@David Atherton[/USER], although I remain skeptical of the idea that this coin shows Caracalla stealing the basketball from Geta. [ATTACH=full]1172930[/ATTACH] [B]Conclusion[/B] With all of this, I have reasonable confidence that I can narrow this coin's date to the time period between Geta rising to Augustus (end of AD 209) and Geta's death (December, AD 211), and perhaps even a bit closer, before or after, to the death of Septimius Severus. Any advice or comments on the logic of dating applied or anything else in this post, is always much appreciated, as are references to other resources on the coins of Augusta Triaina. [B] Post anything you find interesting or entertaining.[/B][/QUOTE]
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