Crossing NGC Fatties to PCGS

Many fake slabs? It's easy enough to verify a slab. 70's don't exactly run plentiful and I'd think one would certainly very carefully verify something being represented as a 70 which as you note, the premium would be astronomical. I'm more talking about general more common grades anyway. There are always exceptions but I'll take a slab versus the came coin unverified every time. The premium would have to be really, really outrageously lower for me to consider different. Take this forum for example. Most often, coins that folks ask about or show pics of are blasted by others as to grade and value. Somebody somewhere will find something wrong with raw coins versus a slab more often than not. Slabs generally are accepted as to what is represented. I'm just trying to say that a slab denotes authenticity and constitutes more confidence than a raw ever could. Give me two coins of the exact same grade and I'll select the slab every single time. You can't say that with raw. Again GENERALLY, slabs are always sold for more. After all, authenticity is what is guaranteed and that's the whole purpose of grading services to begin with.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

You should qualify this post with the phrase, "leading slab companies." There have been some fly by night outfits that were FAR LESS reliable than an honest, knowledgeable dealer. Some these crooked slab companies were created when eBay let consigners use any slab to claim that a piece had been “certified.”

So far has noting fake PCGS and NGC slabs, maybe you can do it, but there are a lot of collectors who can’t. Sometimes the detection boils down to the wrong print font on the label, which can be very subtle. Incorrect bar codes are another clue. It’s not something a lot of people are going to notice unless they have looked at a lot of slabs and even a lot of generations of slabs.

That’s why PCGS and NGC ask you to check out serial numbers on the slab before you buy the piece. The weakness to doing this is that the crooks often use the serial number to a legitimate slab for the same denomination, date and mint mark. Unless the slab company has a picture pop up when you check the serial number, there is still room for fraud. The fakes have both a counterfeit slab and a counterfeit coin in them.

 

I was referring to NGC, PCGS, and ANACS. I didn't mean anyone other than those three. I would dismiss anything that wasn't one of the three out of hand. My chances of selling a high grade coin graded by one of the big 3 versus raw would be much better, would they not? That's really what I meant from the outset here. There are exceptions to everything.

 

Fake slabs are a major issue as well are fake raw coins.
The the real problem or issues is collectors who are clueless unless the coin they are buying is in a slab peroid .
They are blinded by plastic or stickers in thinking that I'm ok buying it because its in a pcgs,ngc, or ,anacs slab . Keep drinking the kool ade!
Personally I need now break open a slab to obtain a higher grade. I can look at a coin and tell you what it grades, if it's a variety, has it been tooled, etc..etc....
Every collector should know how to grade and read a coin surfaces.
And that is what separates a numismistic from a collector . If you rely on a TPG, or a sticker to guide your purchase you're in the wrong hobby!
If you read, research, ask questions, have the passion to learn.....then come talk to me. If you just need to fill holes in an album or a set then you need not consider yourself a collector...you're a horder!
There are plenty of members here both youg and old who have tried to teach other members here, those same members would give you an honest opion on a coin no matter raw or slabed.
If you are not going to take advantage of the wisdom and knowlege these people offer you.....then again your in the wrong hobby.....maybe collecting foreign tennis balls.

 

If one were to acquire say a 1909-S VDB in circulation from say roll searching, the first thing many here would suggest would be to send it in for grading to verify it. I realize that there are many more knowledgeable collectors than myself and I certainly place some value on their opinions. In order for the hobby to continue and to have a source for those that haven't been alive for decades, a source for verification is needed. Slabs do that. It has value as well as does certain member's opinions. It's up to the individual to use whatever tools they can to establish some measure of value to what they think may be of value to as large degree. I personally value very highly those that have been in the hobby for decades as there is no substitute for wisdom. That being said, not everybody can rely on an entity on the internet to help establish value. Slabs serve that purpose. Independent verification is of value. Wisdom is of value. Collective knowledge is of value. All are tools. People make mistakes and I've seen many here and elsewhere. People need some way to measure value. Opinions on here or wherever can be inaccurate and colored by outside factors. Nothing's perfect and not everyone has the time or resources to ascertain an internet entity's wisdom nor can they hold that party responsible for inaccuracy. Slabs offer a guarantee. Nothing wrong with a little guarantee. If I want to sell a high priced coin, I can offer a slabbed coin or I can offer a raw coin saying John Smith said it's good. One of them has more universal value than the other. Enough said.

 

Coin are a commodities any item as such are all subject to market demands.
Thus values can very as the market changes daily.
A slab coin or a slab does not ensure anything but an opinion of a third party who is actually costing value as you aren't going to spend $35 To slab a $50 coin to increase its value.
The TPG guarantee that the coin is genuine, and to place a grade they believe it to be.
.....I sent two buffalo nickels in with a variety to be noted on the slab there are 9 rpm and 5 omm for the 38 D
And they still couldn't get it right after I did their homework for them.
I can id each variety of the above and don't need a guide to do so.
This TPG with all the information at hand they had to rely on for reference couldn't get it right.
So I trust my eye.....not yours or theirs.....and if you or others don't have the time ,or interest in learning ......then again collect tennis balls.
I need not break out a coin to know it's not a 63 but a 65 ,
And if you or another wanted the coin in the 63 slab ....well it's going to cost you 65 money.....because that's what value I place on it ....and if you don't want it for 65 money...no worries.... because you're not buying it at 63 money.. on the other hand if the coin has been over graded the coin need be sold for what it is grade wise.

 

I don't think I would question your expertise as it seems rather obvious, at least to me. Many folks in the hobby don't have your expertise. I know I do not. That aside, how would you recommend someone such as myself attain verification on what value the raw coin they possess has? Another internet forum perhaps? Maybe just hold on to it for decades hoping I can attain the knowledge needed to accurately identify my coin(s)? Personally I'd love be be around long enough and I'd love to be able to use my collected knowledge to not need anyone else's opinion as to what value to place on my coin(s) but again, not everyone can access someone as knowledgeable as yourself and possess enough expertise of their own to make the determinations needed for value to be assigned. Most of my collection is raw and a portion of it would never be valuable enough to warrant grading fees and so some knowledge base is required by me to ever hope to transfer or liquidate my collection to anyone. Sir, I don't question your credentials, your knowledge nor your expertise on the subject, or any other pertinent characteristic relevant to the hobby for that matter. I only challenge your assertion that highly valuable graded coins are of little consequence. I wish I had your expertise and I enjoy being continually educated on the subject as it diminishes my future need to use such services. Should I ever decide to use such services to justify the cost of particular higher priced coins I possess, I will avail myself of their services to insure a base value. I can also agree that knocking off a chunk of value of a coin in order to guarantee a certain value only makes sense on higher priced coins. I would hope that I have enough knowledge to reasonably price those that otherwise wouldn't qualify for the added expense of a slab. To me, anything over one hundred dollars value needs some sort of certification someday, but I'm too cheap to pay the fees for many of the coins I possess and so they remain raw. If I added up all the fees I would need to assure values in my collection, I would lose some of that value and I'm not willing to do that. However, many of my coins jump quite a bit and I would like to know what grade they could be assigned with certainty. I'm fine with those not mint state but some mint state coins I'm not that good with. I find mint state coins hard to establish a solid state from say 64 to 65 or 66 and so it's nice to know I can find out if I decide I need to. I just have to accept the fee and like I said I'm too cheap at this point in my numismatic life I hold many unknowns. The fun of the hobby is discovering value. Anyway, this has drifted way off from my original point. You find little value in grading services and I would politely disagree with that assertion. Chances are I will probably need these services to place a value on some part of my collection and in my experiences thus far, slabs assure value versus raw coins and so it is likely that I will need them before I kick the bucket. I doubt I will absorb enough knowledge to place a guaranteed value on a part of my collection and so I will likely someday need these services. I might need an entity to place a value that is assured one day. Enter the grading company. You don't need them. Congrats.

 

An old fatty white slab would be a better comparison as the original slabs have HUGE premiums that far out value the coin. The answer would be it depends. Most of the old slabs have small premiums at best while some Morgans can have significant price jumps from 63 to 65. While you won't find many that would go 63 to 65 unless you're talking about a slab version with a huge premium you would almost always be better off with the new slab as a 65 as that generally will double the price or more.

As a side note getting a gold CAC on the old 63 Morgan slab might actually bring the best price

 

I just saw an old white label pcgs slab that went for a lot of money. In that case I think it was buy holder and the coin.

 

I disagree with his sticker on 42 WLH. I can’t see it going 65 with obv dark spots look like bullet holes - 64 C coin! Probably why it’s still in fattie.

The coin is not appealing enough for the 65 grade. On Gold sticker coins - don’t pay more than grade on Holder. If he will pay you more than 64 money - sell it to him.

 

Gold sticker fatty 64 > new holder 65

 

I should have saved a can of unopened white tennis balls. I'd be rich.

 

I go by the grade on the Holder (valuation / bid, offer) and my opinion of the coin. The sticker is just his opinion and many times I disagree. That coin is not an MS65 coin.

 

I think the coin would go 65. A different image and seeing the reverse, might change my mind.

 

If you disagree with CAC a significant amount of time it’s your grading that needs the work

 

I prefer the old slabs too. Especially the early pcgs. To me a green or gold sticker on an old slab is always better than a new slab. Especially as you know the old slab hasn’t been cracked out however many times and absolutely maxed out grade wise

 

No I don’t think so. Not some rabid CAC fanatic lol. Been in the biz 30 years.