CRISPUS the rapist (???)

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ocatarinetabellatchitchix, Oct 6, 2019.

  1. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Well-Known Member

    For a while I wanted to upgrade my Crispus only example. This is done now. Making few researches on my new coin made me discover many interesting unknown details.
    Here they are :

    1) similarity with the Bible’s story of Joseph, son of Jacob ;

    “Now Joseph was well-built and handsome, and after a while his master’s wife took notice of Joseph and said, ‘Come to bed with me!’, but he refused. One day he went into the house to attend to his duties, and none of the household servants was inside.(...) She caught him by his cloak and said, ‘Come to bed with me!’ And he left his cloak in her hand and run out of the house. She called her household servants. ‘Look’, she said to them, ‘this Hebrew has been brought to us to make sport of us! He came in here to sleep with me, but I screamed’. (...) When his master heard the story his wife told him, saying ‘This is how your slave treated me’, he burned with anger. Joseph’s master took him and put him in prison, the place where the King’s prisoners were confined.” (Genesis chapter 39)

    2) Crispus was the son of Constantine the great. He was Caesar with his half brother Constantine II and with his first cousin Licinius II. He was the most likely choice for an heir to the throne at the time. His siblings Constantine II, Constantius II and Constans were far too young and knew very little about the tasks of an emperor. He was appointed as Commander of Gaul, and was the leader of the fleet of 200 ships in the Battle of Hellespont against Licinius troops. Also Crispus was in charge of half of the legions in Constantine army. Fausta, her stepmother , was extremely jealous of him. Perhaps she was afraid that Constantine would put aside the sons she bore him. So, in order to get rid of Crispus, Fausta had a plan. She apparently told the young Caesar that she was in love with him and suggested an illegitimate love affair. Crispus denied the indecent proposal of Fausta and left the palace in a hurry. She reported to Constantine that she dismissed him after his attempt to rape her. Constantine believed her and, true to his strong personality and short temper, executed his beloved son. Not too long after that, Constantine discovered the whole truth and Fausta was executed by being cast into boiling water...
    A number of modern historians believe that Crispus and Fausta really did have an affair. When Constantine found out, his reaction was to have both of them killed. A possible cause of delay in the execution of Fausta is pregnancy.

    3) Now about my newest acquisition :
    Crispus ae Follis Rome
    19 mm 2.60 g 326 AD
    Campgate, 2 turrets, 6 layers, no doors, star above.
    Mintmark R wreath Q RIC 288


    I picked up this coin because it is the last emission of Crispus in Rome before his death. The minting of this type started after the fall of Licinius in 324 AD. This type is rated rare since Crispus disappeared from the coinage in 326 AD following his killing.
    Please show me your CRISPUS examples ...!
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  3. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Thanks for the write up, snd nice “camp”, @Ocatarinetabellatchitchix ...

    I only have one Crispy in my bowl of yummy coins

    Roman Imperial
    Crispus 317-326 CE
    AE Folles
    Caesar in Trier
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  4. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Good looking coin and I like the back story too.
    I only have one Crispus myself as well:

    AE follis
    Obverse: IVL CRISPVS NOB CAES, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right
    Reverse: PRINCIPIA IVVENTVTIS, Crispus standing left in military dress, holding inverted spear and resting left hand on shield. P in left field.
    Mintmark TT
    Crispus AE follis Mintmark TT RIC VII, 73 P.jpg
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  5. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..i'm too am a fan of unfortunate Crispus..not sure what all really went down, but i know a terrible outcome..i have 5 coins of him in's 4 o'em crispus coins +a maybe 001.JPG crispus coins +a maybe 002.JPG
    Spaniard, gogili1977, TIF and 16 others like this.
  6. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    RIC VII, London, Crispus, No. 122

    • Reduced weight follis - 318
    • O: Crispus laureate and cuirassed bust right - CRISPVS NOB CAES
    • R: Sol with radiate crown, holding globe (lh) - chlamys over left shoulder - SOLI INVICTO COMITI - PLN (exergue) S * (l) P(r)

    RIC VII, London, Crispus, No. 275

    • Reduced weight follis - 323 to 324
    • O: Crispus helmeted and cuirassed bust left - CRISPVS NOBIL C
    • R: Altar surmounted by globe - BEAT TRA XXX NQLITAS - PLON (exergue)

    RIC VII, London, Crispus, No. 291

    • Reduced weight follis - 324
    • O: Crispus laureate and cuirassed bust right - IVL CRISPVS NOB C
    • R: VOT X within wreath - CAESARVM NOSTRORVM - PLON (exergue) u (r)

    RIC VII, London, Crispus, No. 295

    • Reduced weight follis - 324 to 325
    • O: Crispus laureate and cuirassed bust right - FL IVL CRISPVS NOB CAES
    • R: Campgate surmounted by star and globes - PROVIDENTIAE CAESS - PLON (exergue)
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
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  7. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

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  8. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    There is no way we ever will know the truth of the Fausta/Crispus matter because the original sources all had great love or hate for Constantine and would color their accounts accordingly. There is a very small window of opportunity in history when we can finds accounts of those who know but during a time they are free to write everything they knew.

    My favorite Crispus coins (all AE3):

    rw5650bb2154.jpg rw5693bb3028.jpg rw5695bb2943.jpg
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  9. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    @dougsmit I really like that 2nd one. I don't think I've ever seen that reverse on a coin before. Thanks for sharing!
  10. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Well-Known Member

    Nice coins @jamesicus ! Do you have britain roots or what ?

    Especially for Crispus and Fausta since the emperor ordered the damnatio memoriae for both of them. Their names were never mentioned again and deleted from all official documents and monuments. Even Fausta’s sons, once in power, never revoked this order....

  11. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    Thank you - and yes.
  12. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Fun coins and subject!
    How many “saints" behead their own first born son and then boil alive their wife?
    Just one psycho that I'm aware of.
    Here's a well patinated Crispy creme
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  13. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    The Roma reverse comes for all the Augusti and Caesares on the scene then. In addition to the epws mintmark they come with a more ordinary R + officina mark.
  14. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    A couple of different reverse types:

    Crispus Centenionalis Siscia.jpg
    Crispus, AD 316-326.
    Roman AE centenionalis, 2.93 g, 18.2 mm, 6 h.
    Siscia, AD 320-321
    Obv: IVL CRISPVS NOB C, laureate head, right.
    Rev: CAESARVM NOSTRORVM around wreath enclosing VOT X; ЄSIS* in exergue.
    Refs: RIC 165; Cohen 44; RCV 16772.

    Crispus Centenionalis Alexandria.jpg
    Crispus, AD 316-326.
    Roman billon centenionalis, 3.07 g, 19.3 mm, 11 h.
    Alexandria, AD 325-26.
    Obv: FL IVL CRISPVS NOB CAES, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust, left.
    Rev: PROVIDEN-TIAE CAESS, two-turreted gateway of military camp, star above; SMALA in exergue.
    Refs: RIC vii, p. 709, 35; LRBC I 1403; Cohen 125; RCV 16813.
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  15. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Thanks! I am going to look for one.
  16. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

    I wish I had the reference handy...but I came across a source that put out some interesting evidence to support another theory about Crispus. Basically that he and a friend of his were victims of palace intrigue, organized by his step-mother.

    Here are my coins, no new ones lately:

    Crispus, AD 317-326
    Ӕ Follis, 18m, 3.1g, 6h; London mint, AD 318
    Obv.: FL IVL CRISPVS NOB CAES, Laureate draped cuirassed bust right
    Rev.: PRINCIPIA I-VVENTVTIS; Crispus standing right in military dress, holding spear and shield, crescent in left field
    In Ex.: PLN

    Crispus, AD 317 - 326
    AE, follis, 3.01g, 19mm; 6h; Aquileia mint
    Obv.: CRISPVS NOB CAES; laureate, cuirassed bust right
    Rev.: CAESARVM NOSTRORVM, VOT / (dot) / V in laurel wreath
    In Ex.: (dot) A[Q]S (dot)
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  17. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    I only have 3 Crispus coins, this one I didn't even remember I had and didn't have a pic of it. From an old uncleaned lot, kind of a turd, but the only coin I have with this reverse type. Did a quick pic on Ol' Gnarly.
  18. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    Is the following resource the one you were thinking of?
  19. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Thats just too many. I think you have a Crispy-Complex.
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  20. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member one time, yes...but i overcame it..for the most part...:angelic:
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  21. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    BTW, you have a cool Avatar. My uncle used to collect those cast iron banks. I used to play with that bank as well as several other’ns.
    ominus1 likes this.
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