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<p>[QUOTE="TIF, post: 3155454, member: 56859"]Short and skinny: we-- ancient coin collectors and dealers-- lost.</p><p><br /></p><p>Here's a longer version but it is still just skimming the surface and I am most certainly not an expert in these issues. If anyone with more knowledge finds errors in what I've said please correct me. I'll give some background and then a very capsular version of the ruling.</p><p><br /></p><p>The Ancient Coin Collectors Guild (ACCG; a US organization) maintains that ancient coins are not cultural patrimony; they were used in commerce just like we use coins today. Coins were and have always been intended for exchange of goods, often across geopolitical boundaries. They were exchanged for goods and services far and wide.</p><p><br /></p><p>Let's say an ancient coin is found modern Turkey. It is a type known to have been struck in ancient Cyprus. For purposes of this question, disregard any issues of Turkish laws. Who does that coin belong to? Turkey? Cyprus? It was struck in Cyprus but somewhere in time it was brought to Turkey. Does that make it the property of the Turkish government, or the Turkish finder if that is allowed by that country's laws? Does it belong to Cyprus, simply because we know it was made in Cyprus long ago?</p><p><br /></p><p>Historically, the find spot for most ancient coins is unknown or not recorded but in most cases there is little reason to believe ancient coins stayed in the city or country in which they were struck. There are millions of ancient coins in the hands of collectors and museums with more found every day. Most of them are of very low market value. Think of the millions of late Roman bronzes. Who is going to record and keep track of a find spot for a coin worth dollars (or pennies, going back in time)? It just isn't done, or at least it wasn't done in the past many hundreds of years of the hobby nor is it feasible to do so for such common and low value items.</p><p><br /></p><p>It has become fashionable in recent decades for the US to enter in to these MOUs with various countries as part of diplomatic relations. Ostensibly, these understandings are to help prevent looting (in reality, they don't). Some countries are lumping coins in with their culture heritage items. Cyprus, for example has a MOU with the US and currently, ancient coins are considered their cultural property.</p><p><br /></p><p>Cutting to the chase, the ACCG began fighting this nonsense in 2004. US MOUs with Cyprus (2007) and China (2009) placed onerous restrictions on US importation of coins from those respective countries.</p><p><br /></p><p>(paragraphs in blue are copied from the ruling)</p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff">The Guild opposed the Cypriot and Chinese MOUs, believing that State Department officials had acted in bad faith in adopting the import restrictions. That belief was bolstered by what the Guild perceived as failures of government officials to comply with the CPIA. To remedy those perceived failures, the Guild sought to have its grievances heard and resolved in the courts. The Guild therefore decided to manufacture litigation by deliberately importing restricted ancient Cypriot and Chinese coins into the United States. Once the coins were detained, the Guild planned to sue the federal agencies and officials responsible for imposing and enforcing the import restrictions. </span></p><p><br /></p><p>And that's what they did. Hoping to create a test case he ACCG bought and arranged importation in to the USthree Chinese knife coins, seven Cypriot coins, and five other Chinese coins in 2009. The coins items were seized by US Customs. The coins are the Defendants in this case which was heard by the US Court of Appeals Fourth Circuit in March 2018-- it is the last stage of the legal process which began in 2009. ACCG is the claimant-appellant.</p><p><br /></p><p>The ACCG's legal case reached many obstacles and this ruling is apparently the end of the story. The ACCG's litigation and appeal failed. The US government maintained that the coins were illegally imported.</p><p><br /></p><p>It was a very long slog... 2009-2018.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="TIF, post: 3155454, member: 56859"]Short and skinny: we-- ancient coin collectors and dealers-- lost. Here's a longer version but it is still just skimming the surface and I am most certainly not an expert in these issues. If anyone with more knowledge finds errors in what I've said please correct me. I'll give some background and then a very capsular version of the ruling. The Ancient Coin Collectors Guild (ACCG; a US organization) maintains that ancient coins are not cultural patrimony; they were used in commerce just like we use coins today. Coins were and have always been intended for exchange of goods, often across geopolitical boundaries. They were exchanged for goods and services far and wide. Let's say an ancient coin is found modern Turkey. It is a type known to have been struck in ancient Cyprus. For purposes of this question, disregard any issues of Turkish laws. Who does that coin belong to? Turkey? Cyprus? It was struck in Cyprus but somewhere in time it was brought to Turkey. Does that make it the property of the Turkish government, or the Turkish finder if that is allowed by that country's laws? Does it belong to Cyprus, simply because we know it was made in Cyprus long ago? Historically, the find spot for most ancient coins is unknown or not recorded but in most cases there is little reason to believe ancient coins stayed in the city or country in which they were struck. There are millions of ancient coins in the hands of collectors and museums with more found every day. Most of them are of very low market value. Think of the millions of late Roman bronzes. Who is going to record and keep track of a find spot for a coin worth dollars (or pennies, going back in time)? It just isn't done, or at least it wasn't done in the past many hundreds of years of the hobby nor is it feasible to do so for such common and low value items. It has become fashionable in recent decades for the US to enter in to these MOUs with various countries as part of diplomatic relations. Ostensibly, these understandings are to help prevent looting (in reality, they don't). Some countries are lumping coins in with their culture heritage items. Cyprus, for example has a MOU with the US and currently, ancient coins are considered their cultural property. Cutting to the chase, the ACCG began fighting this nonsense in 2004. US MOUs with Cyprus (2007) and China (2009) placed onerous restrictions on US importation of coins from those respective countries. (paragraphs in blue are copied from the ruling) [COLOR=#0000ff]The Guild opposed the Cypriot and Chinese MOUs, believing that State Department officials had acted in bad faith in adopting the import restrictions. That belief was bolstered by what the Guild perceived as failures of government officials to comply with the CPIA. To remedy those perceived failures, the Guild sought to have its grievances heard and resolved in the courts. The Guild therefore decided to manufacture litigation by deliberately importing restricted ancient Cypriot and Chinese coins into the United States. Once the coins were detained, the Guild planned to sue the federal agencies and officials responsible for imposing and enforcing the import restrictions. [/COLOR] And that's what they did. Hoping to create a test case he ACCG bought and arranged importation in to the USthree Chinese knife coins, seven Cypriot coins, and five other Chinese coins in 2009. The coins items were seized by US Customs. The coins are the Defendants in this case which was heard by the US Court of Appeals Fourth Circuit in March 2018-- it is the last stage of the legal process which began in 2009. ACCG is the claimant-appellant. The ACCG's legal case reached many obstacles and this ruling is apparently the end of the story. The ACCG's litigation and appeal failed. The US government maintained that the coins were illegally imported. It was a very long slog... 2009-2018.[/QUOTE]
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Court ruling on importation of ancient coins!
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