Counterfeit?

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Daniel Jones, May 26, 2020.

  1. Daniel Jones

    Daniel Jones Well-Known Member

    I recently contacted an eBay seller about this coin ebay.com/itm/192901634480?ul_noapp=true being counterfeit, but he said it is 100% genuine, and said he bought it from Heritage auctions #231752 lot #64268. Does this coin look genuine, or is this seller a fraud?
     
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  3. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    well, I am not an expert on the series, so for what it is worth:
    I see nothing that jumps out as fake to me.

    But, wait for the real experts to chime in
     
  4. Evan Saltis

    Evan Saltis Teen Collector

    Like Treas said, I don't see anything that really jumps out at me, no seam visible, etc. I'm no expert either though.
     
  5. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Do you collect this series? If so, why not tell all of us what you don't like about the coin. Please be specific.

    If you don't specialize in this series...

    I'll comment on it AFTER IT IS MOVED TO THE WORLD COIN FORUM.
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  6. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Nothing jumps out at me other than it has been cleaned/wiped, and probably some spots removed.
     
  7. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Don't know much about these but I see what might be casting pearls. I reported it and asked for it to be switched to the World Coin forum.
     
  8. desertgem

    desertgem MODERATOR Senior Errer Collecktor Moderator

    If it is good, it looks like the die maker's son did the work. The edge might be indicative, although I also do not collect these. Jim
     
    1934 Wreath Crown likes this.
  9. mrbadexample

    mrbadexample Well-Known Member

    Have you checked the Heritage auction to see if it matches his claim?
     
  10. 1934 Wreath Crown

    1934 Wreath Crown Well-Known Member

    Did a quick search on Heritage website. They haven't sold a coin similar to this one according to their database. If the die maker's son didn't work on the die :p then it definitely looks tooled.

    Not my area of interest though.
     
  11. Daniel Jones

    Daniel Jones Well-Known Member

    This coin is an obvious counterfeit because the little crown above the left pillar (the royal crown) was only used on 8 reales of Mexico city issued from 1732-1754. Starting in 1754, the Mexico city mint changed that crown design to the imperial crown design. Anyone with a book reference can look that up for them self. Also, the little o above the right M is an abnormal shape, no genuine Mexico city mint 8 reales has an o above the right M in that style.
     
  12. Daniel Jones

    Daniel Jones Well-Known Member

    I just received his response earlier today, and did not have time to check Heritage auctions records yet, but I will as soon as I have time.
     
  13. gxseries

    gxseries Coin Collector

    That is a concern. The seller is a known Russian coin dealer and I'm certain he wouldn't intentionally sell counterfeit.
     
    serafino likes this.
  14. Daniel Jones

    Daniel Jones Well-Known Member

    I just searched Heritage auctions for Lot #64268 under the title of world and ancient coins from Dec. 28, 2017 as the seller provided to me, but Heritage auctions said there are no matches for that item. I reported this counterfeit coin to eBay. Hopefully, eBay will have enough integrity to remove reported bogus products from their site.
     
  15. Daniel Jones

    Daniel Jones Well-Known Member

    I apologize for starting my thread in the wrong category, but I am new to starting threads here despite being a member since July, 2015 and was unfamiliar with this rule, so I will be careful next time if I start another thread.
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  16. jgenn

    jgenn World Crown Collector

    Yes, those are both anomalies that should not appear on a genuine 8 reales.
     
  17. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Not in the least, I didn't "report" it for anything bad, just to get it moved so you could get more responses. I look forward to seeing more of your coins.
     
    Daniel Jones likes this.
  18. jgenn

    jgenn World Crown Collector

    So those of us that wondered how a coin with otherwise very good details could have two obviously non-regal design flaws, need to look at the coin that the eBay seller referenced from Heritage.

    Thanks to the keen eye of realeswatcher, the picture becomes clearer. He speculates that the coin was tooled to repair chops. If so, shame on the bozo that royally screwed up a nice coin with mostly acceptable damage (many collectors like chopped coins), and shame on the seller trying to pass it off as undamaged.

    Is it genuine? PCGS put their certificate on it but I wonder how much time they actually spent on authenticating it once it was determined to be damaged.
     
    Daniel Jones and The Eidolon like this.
  19. Daniel Jones

    Daniel Jones Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your keen research skills. I failed to locate that with my searches. I REEEEEALLY do appreciate your time and effort you put into resolving this issue.
     
  20. doppeltaler

    doppeltaler Well-Known Member

    8 reales and Chinese dollars are the most counterfeited coins i believe. I have seen a lot of discussion on counterfeits and how they are becoming harder to spot with new technology. coin community forum has few experts on the 8 reales.
     
    serafino likes this.
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