Counterfeit - what does it mean ?

Alot of good points ...
JPL

 

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I read a book I think called Numismatic Forgery. The author makes an important distinction between "forgeries" and "counterfeits." I think some or all in here are using the terms synonymously but there is a difference. Counterfeits were and are made to fool merchants. Forgeries are made to fool collectors. Someone stated that there's no need to study forgeries because in essence they are materially different and so on. The author of that book states that there are forgeries still undetected and may never be unmasked. The content in the book is convincing and scary. Forgeries can in every detectable way pass as genuine pieces is his point, and this can happen for a short or long while. To study forgeries is helpful to say the least, if not interesting.

 

You gotta love when someone bumps a 10 year old thread. lol

 

(Fakers)

 

We elaborate on contemporary circulating counterfeits which circulated with the regals and modern forgeries meant to fool collectors in the modern era in the new GNL Eight Reale Book by Gurney. No need to buy ... just go to this Amazon Book and click LOOK INSIDE ... its part of the book preview where you can see these two definitions discussed in great detail for several pages. Its FREE ... to view.

John Lorenzo
Numismatist
United States

 

I buy "reproduction" coins as fillers for very rare coins that I could never afford to buy. I collect Italian coins and in Italy they sell these very well made "reconio" coins for around $15. Ebay Italia has them and most of the sellers are honest and telll you they are fakes.

However, I have seen some of these Italian fakes being sold on American Ebay as being real coins.

 

I never heard of those Italian fakes. Interesting though. I've seen a dealer once who had a whole album of forgeries for sale. They were labeled fakes but it was still kinda weird to see them out in the open for sale

 

I believe a good case in point, as a circulating counterfeit here in the United States, that is collected, would be the Henning Nickel. There are still some out there, and are still being found from time to time. None have been confiscated from collectors by the secret service that I know of.

 

Go to ebay.it (may work via ebay.com too, dunno) and search the coins/notes section for "riconio".

Christian

 

Works on both sites, but mostly different results come up.

ebay.it search

ebay.com search

 

Now that's interesting.

 

I just bought an Italian 1914 5 lire "riconio" fake coin on ebay italia. It was $12. (usa) and it's a nice looking coin and will be used in my album as a filler. These coins when real are crown size and weigh 25 grams. The fakes are the same size but are always around 2 grams light. Some of these fakes were made out of silver but many are not.
A real coin of this type would sell for big money.

 

You can get a solid silver copy for around $40-$50.

 

Elizabeth I reestablished the sterling standard. Henry VIII had debased the coinage to the point that Shillings were silver washed copper coins. Hence the derogatory reference to the king as 'Copper nose'. The coins featured the king en face. The nose being the high point of the coins wore of first and the copper became visible.

 

Not to take this to Religion or, Politics,
I have been the one on the receiving end, of counterfeit coins. I almost bought an 1879cc Morgan uncirculated toned! felt as if it was the real thing.Till I weighed it. The Broker tried to assure me that it was the real thing. we checked the diameter. 2 mm smaller. still ready to sell. I felt ashamed for the man. Although, after our experience he pulled it from his shelf. Honesty is the best. Couterfiets, fakes etc. can get melted back to their only form. Metal.....

 

On an international scale, counterfeiting in China reminds me of North Korea's two-faced tactics. As all know, counterfeiting in China is a big business, and it is legal. What disturbs me is the amount of counterfeits imported into the US, is there no law against this? Sites like "Alibaba" and "Aliexpress.com" can shock viewers! You can buy rolls of Jefferson nickels, any date, Mercury dimes any date, and any date Buffalo nickels, even 4 coin Lincoln 2009 coin sets, all manufactured in China, and selling for pennies. A full roll of BU 1938 Jefferson nickels for $2.00 and they are 75 Cu and 25 Ni, and the correct weight and size. Sure with some care the counterfeit can be seen as such. But it is not easy to validate from poor photos. Hence...

It is advisable to purchase and own several specimens for "security" purposes. The government (in America) is doing little to stop the manufacture of say -- 1968, 20 Dong Vietnamese coins, they apparently could care less. Thus the serious collector and dealer must self educate. This is the reality of modern day coin collecting, US coins AND world coins of base metals! In a way it promotes education, and may strengthen the need for the LCS, and other knowledgeable persons. (including this site, Coin Talk).
GSDykes

 

What was the weight of that coin ?