counterfeit PCGS gold coins on ebay?

Does anyone have any idea how often St Gaudens and Liberty $20 gold coins in PCGS slabs are counterfeited and sold on ebay (I am talking about U.S. sellers here)

Is it too much of a gamble now a days?

It's hard to do weight tests in slabs although i think the magnet test would work through the plastic.

 

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I supose it would be easy enough to take a real PCGS slab. Carefully crack it open and substitute the fake. For $1,700 coin, such ministrations would be worthwhile. Sad comment on our times though.

 

I am not 100% sure but I believe PCGS and NGC slabs and very tamper resistant. I have never tried to crack one out but dealing with sonic seals in my work its very obvious when the seal is broken.

 

Fake slabs are crawling all over Ebay and the problem is getting worse. What is worse is that the fakes spread out from Ebay to all other venues, such as local shows or local clubs, so venue alone means little now. Personally, I have cut way back on what I will buy or bid on. If there is any doubt, I move on and look elsewhere. Ebay doesn't care about fakes and won a major 7-year-long lawsuit against Tiffany, about fake Tiffany brand items being sold on the venue. Ebay only cares about their fees. If a new person asks, I tell there are lots of fakes being sold on Ebay. Fake coins, fake slabs, fake coins in fake slabs, real coins in fake slabs, fake albums full of fake coins, fake albums with mostly real coins and one or two fakes, it is a long list. Fake coins of virtually every value level, denomination, cost and country have been reported. Low cost is not a safe guard. High value coins are especially popular.

 

There could be counterfeit PCGS anything on Ebay.

 

This is why I tend to stay away from e bay. There's far too many fakes, fakes in slabs, etc etc, as stated by RedTiger.

 

Oh and there was a major case involving tampered PCGS holders: from http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=5921&universeid=313 "Genuine, common date Morgan dollars were split into two pieces (front and back along the rim), then adhered to each other in combinations to create the illusion of rare date and mintmarks. The coins then were placed in tampered PCGS holders to give the coin credibility in the marketplace and to hide the alterations," said Stephen Mayer, Chief Operating Officer of Collectors Universe ... "These are not the same type of fakes as the die-struck Chinese counterfeits that are being offered in the marketplace. This is an entirely different method of counterfeiting, slicing genuine coins in half," explained Sargent. [and apparently slicing the holders too] ...

 

I haven't bought a coin slabbed by PCGS in a while now and non of them are expensive but now I wonder if my coins are fake. How can you tell a fake slabbed coin from a real one?

 

I believe the ridges on each side are sharper and rougher on counterfeit ones. While they are smoother and sorta softer on legit ones. Another thing is to go on the website of the TPG that slabbed your coin, and verify the cert #.

 

i know for a fact that this method doesnt help at all ... as the manufacters of the fakes always match the fake with a correct PCGS and NGC certification #

what alerted me to this were ebay sellers with very low transaction counting selling PCGS MS 63 / 64 common date $20 gold coins ... one seller just had 1 coin for sale ... an MS64 St Gaudens Gold Coin from the 1920's

i know that the chinese fakes are getting REALLY REALLY good and this stuff is finding it's way to U.S. ebayers

it's a pretty good scam really as even if they are caught ... they would probably say they didnt know and were ripped off themselves.

i almost think it might be better to buy something not slabbed ... as at least then you could weigh it properly ... i think the weight would be hard to get right as gold is so heavy
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As the price of gold went up after ww1 the gold content in u.s coins were worth more then the dollar denomination on the coin, most of the gold coinage was being bought up
by over seas buyers and shipped out ... A lot of the gold that survived was gold sent overseas....
The gold melt was away of stopping overseas gold buyers from getting gold cheaper then its value and reselling it oversead. (selling us coinage above face )

i was just reading about this... in fact alot of the u.s gold is still overseas...
Making it tougher for someone to buy on ebay becuase you see a location overseas and get scared it overeas and might be a fake...

Plus someone might be selling euro fakes... I read awhile back russia had lots of u.s gold counterfiets also , made from gold plated lead coins..
just like wingedsaid if someone is selling fakes all they have to do is point the finger at someone else and say they did not know

 

How can you possibly know that? Is it true that you didn't know about the PCGS case until I linked it and that is one of the more widely publicized scams? There are likely thousands of scams you and I haven't heard about because many don't ever get reported or publicized. Those tampered holders mentioned in the article may well have fooled a good many collectors focused on a good deal and more than a few dealers interested in a quick score. The scammers went to a big name dealer, with very expensive merchandise ($10k on up per coin), so the coins and holders were checked thoroughly. If they were less valuable coins, they might have just gone through.

I'd go as far to say the opposite, that it is highly likely that there are some sliced holders out there, glued or melted back together. They might contain a real coin in at a higher grade, or a fake or altered coin. The folks stuck with the sliced slabs probably don't yet know that they have been taken. In fact, on another forum, there was another report of the same scam of sliced holders, sliced coins being passed on Ebay. I'd bet some Ebay buyers got stuck with some of those coins and don't even know yet.

As for the fake slabs, there are now several generations of fake slabs of varying quality. Unfortunately, there is no easy way to tell for sure.

 

Wow you really sound like a true ebay hater. Most of these fake or counterfeit slabs get distributed on craigslist or other venues other than ebay, jmho.

 

Hello Group
I just wanted to share this little story with you.
At work I was talking with a co-worker about coin collecting. He went on to tell me, that a couple years ago a family member passed away. He left this co-worker his coin collection. In this collection he thought there was a coin worth a fortune. He sent it to auction just to find out that it was fake. He told me that the family member had paid almost a lot for the coin and it was a certified coin. They was going by the slab it was in.
Thanks Big Ed

 

In that case, I'm glad I buy mine comando=unslabbed. :yes:

 

Counterfeiting is being done on a massive scale by both China and North Korea they counterfeit gold coins using titanium which are basically identical in weight to a St-gaudens and a golden eagle! They also will counterfeit the plastic coin holders to a "T" ! hundred dollar bills have been found in the United States coming in from North Korea the only way they are detected is through the US treasury Department! US has 3 errors on our $100 bills which the North Korean $100 dollar bills dont have, thete is no way of knowing how many counterfeit $100 bills are out there! They are too perfect using the same paper, ink and the same printing press the US uses. Beware...!!!