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<p>[QUOTE="Insider, post: 2898890, member: 24314"]A few quick comments...a soon as I woke up, made my coffee and sat down to finish this thread Big Money hit me with a to-do list for the day! I've got about ten minutes grace so more later.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Numismat, posted: I can't speak for US coins as I don't specialize in that, but tool marks such as lathe lines are pretty common on a lot of older foreign coins. Russian coppers from the mid-late 19th century are a good example. I've often seen people citing such marks as suspicious even though they are completely normal on genuine coins.</p><p>I don't have any pictures on hand as I've never taken special notice of something that appears commonplace. I would assume from your response that it is not as commonplace on US coins of the period."</p><p><br /></p><p>Great clarification. As you have pointed out, the coins from different countries during the same relative time period using similar minting methods generally have the same characteristics.</p><p><br /></p><p>I should have been more clear. Just about anything that is done to a die will have an effect on the coin that is struck with it. So technically, lathe lines can probably be lumped in with "tooling." So can efforts at the mint to strengthen the design with an engraving tool. Additionally, any use of a tool to remove defects or rust on a die is "tooling." " Tooling" is also used by professional authenticators to describe struck coins with added details such as the hair over the ear od a Morgan dollar or the bands on a dime. That said, there are cases of genuine tooling done by the minting authority to genuine dies and the same types of tooling done to fake dies. My error in this thread was to call the "<span style="color: #b300b3">spike tooling</span>" from the denticals simply "tool" marks although that's what they are called. The "spike" part of the description is just an adjective that describes the shape of most of them. </p><p><br /></p><p>More after chores.</p><p><br /></p><p>PS I have attended several of Bill's informative presentations and have a copy of his book. If you can pick one up, I recommend it as a great introduction to counterfeit detection. PCGS, the ANA Correspondence course, and the Counterfeit Reprints from <i>The Numismatist </i>are also important. </p><p> </p><p>As to this statement: <span style="color: #5900b3">Re: "spikes" In up to 3% of cases, coins with these are in fact genuine, especially on Liberty head coins from the late 19th-early 20th century (Fivaz, US Gold Coin Counterfeit Detection guide, p. 5).</span></p><p><span style="color: #5900b3"><br /></span></p><p>IMHO, Bill's percentage is high. From what I have seen after reading his book, the percentage of "spike" tool marks on genuine coins is less than 1%. Regarding my opinion, I'll paraphrase something said by that "joker"<img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie6" alt=":cool:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie33" alt=":cigar:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> authentication instructor who liked to challenge his students: "Don't believe what you read, test it to see if it's true." I have for myself. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie8" alt=":D" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Insider, post: 2898890, member: 24314"]A few quick comments...a soon as I woke up, made my coffee and sat down to finish this thread Big Money hit me with a to-do list for the day! I've got about ten minutes grace so more later. Numismat, posted: I can't speak for US coins as I don't specialize in that, but tool marks such as lathe lines are pretty common on a lot of older foreign coins. Russian coppers from the mid-late 19th century are a good example. I've often seen people citing such marks as suspicious even though they are completely normal on genuine coins. I don't have any pictures on hand as I've never taken special notice of something that appears commonplace. I would assume from your response that it is not as commonplace on US coins of the period." Great clarification. As you have pointed out, the coins from different countries during the same relative time period using similar minting methods generally have the same characteristics. I should have been more clear. Just about anything that is done to a die will have an effect on the coin that is struck with it. So technically, lathe lines can probably be lumped in with "tooling." So can efforts at the mint to strengthen the design with an engraving tool. Additionally, any use of a tool to remove defects or rust on a die is "tooling." " Tooling" is also used by professional authenticators to describe struck coins with added details such as the hair over the ear od a Morgan dollar or the bands on a dime. That said, there are cases of genuine tooling done by the minting authority to genuine dies and the same types of tooling done to fake dies. My error in this thread was to call the "[COLOR=#b300b3]spike tooling[/COLOR]" from the denticals simply "tool" marks although that's what they are called. The "spike" part of the description is just an adjective that describes the shape of most of them. More after chores. PS I have attended several of Bill's informative presentations and have a copy of his book. If you can pick one up, I recommend it as a great introduction to counterfeit detection. PCGS, the ANA Correspondence course, and the Counterfeit Reprints from [I]The Numismatist [/I]are also important. As to this statement: [COLOR=#5900b3]Re: "spikes" In up to 3% of cases, coins with these are in fact genuine, especially on Liberty head coins from the late 19th-early 20th century (Fivaz, US Gold Coin Counterfeit Detection guide, p. 5). [/COLOR] IMHO, Bill's percentage is high. From what I have seen after reading his book, the percentage of "spike" tool marks on genuine coins is less than 1%. Regarding my opinion, I'll paraphrase something said by that "joker":cool::cigar: authentication instructor who liked to challenge his students: "Don't believe what you read, test it to see if it's true." I have for myself. :D[/QUOTE]
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