counterfeit collection ?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by blue_oxen, Oct 3, 2009.

  1. blue_oxen

    blue_oxen Junior Member

    I have been toying with the idea of putting together a counterfeit coin collection partly to educate myself on the counterfeits out there and partly because i want to start putting together a list of known verities of counterfeits . my question is would this be legal or would i be running the risk of the secret service kicking in my door ?
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. jloring

    jloring Senior Citizen

    The secret service has very little interest (if any) in numismatic forgery... now if you were going to put together a collection of current counterfeit bills, well, that might be another story.
     
  4. Daboz

    Daboz Senior Member

    No , you will not have a problem. If I remember correctly one of the grading services has a collection. I have sold to collectors of Counterfeits and receive grief over it though.

    Edit to add,,, the laws in the US are different from those in Canada.
     
  5. Just Carl

    Just Carl Numismatist

    Counterfeit coins, slabs and even other faked items are becoming a new hobby. At coin shows some are specializing in fake slabs, counterfeit coins, etc. There are collectors collecting faked Hot Wheel cars, Beanie Babies also. The numerous faked German knives, made in China or Pakistan, are also a big thing with collectors. I have seen counterfeit bills at coin shows also and all fakes are starting to sell for a lot of money. In a few instances some really well made counterfeits are selling for as much or more than the originals.
    What is fun is trying to find all the ways Duracell Batteries are spelled by all the fake ones.
     
  6. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    Faked Duracell Batteries , would never have guessed . LOL
    rzage:whistle:
     
  7. Firmso

    Firmso Coin Dawg

    We should discourage FaKE COIN COLLECTION, NOT encourage it...
    Anyone reading this would definitely try to go and buy a fake die to make his on fake coin. Why? Because he is thinking people do actually collect them.

    MY 2 cent.
     
  8. dctjr80

    dctjr80 Senior Member

    The owner of one of my local coin shops has a couple running collections of fake coins in binders. So as to learn from them and show others how good the fakes are getting. I do not believe there is any crime committed until you make the choice to try and pass a fake as real. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the laws all specify the Using of, or creation of... not the keeping or owning of?
     
  9. Firmso

    Firmso Coin Dawg

    I am sure there is somewhere in the law that requires copies to be labeled or stamped copy on it. If not then it is counterfeit.
     
  10. ahearn

    ahearn Member

    It should be easy to put together a collection of obvious fakes and replicas but many fakes are getting harder to detect, so how are you going to know if it's fake or not. In fact, some unsuspecting collectors may have a good collection of fakes and not know it. See my post here:

    http://www.cointalk.com/t72466/
     
  11. pappy-o

    pappy-o coinoisseur

    BAD IDEA thats not collecting thats supporting criminals, no wonder they are getting rich. Did you ever stop to thing that they are using their profits to buy the real coins & then who has the fakes and who has the real coins , dumb hobby collecting fake anything!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  12. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

    It would s#ck if you tried to put together a counterfeit collection and someone sold you a real one! :eek:
     
  13. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage

    My understanding is that these counterfeits are illegal, period. That means they are illegal to have on your person and ignorance of the law does not qualify you to get a break, ever. You certainly can't sell them legally and my understanding is that it's illegal to promote their usage in any manner. I realize that many collectors have them on hand for reference but most ppl keep it very private because counterfeits are illegal. Also most ppl who use them for educational purposes, like on this forum have them smelted as their thread moves forward. If you want to make a collection, be prepared to keep it totally quiet. :secret:
     
  14. blue_oxen

    blue_oxen Junior Member

    I did some more research on the topic and this is what i found so far. It is legal to posses them but you cant sell them without them being stamped with the word copy. I'm going to call the secret service sometime this week to get the definitive answer.
     
  15. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

    If they ask, tell them you're name is "Krispy" :D
     
  16. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage

    The bottom line is that it is illegal to even possess these counterfeit coins. When a federal law states within it's verbiage "Whoever passes, utters, publishes, sells, possesses, or brings into the United States any false, forged, or counterfeit etc." Then you can actually be arrested for possessing counterfeit coins, period. That's all I'm saying. Sure, the law I cited may not be a very good example to bring forward but take your pick. Posession is still against the law.

    18 U.S.C. § 485 : US Code - Section 485: Coins or bars


    Whoever falsely makes, forges, or counterfeits any coin or bar in
    resemblance or similitude of any coin of a denomination higher than
    5 cents or any gold or silver bar coined or stamped at any mint or
    assay office of the United States, or in resemblance or similitude
    of any foreign gold or silver coin current in the United States or
    in actual use and circulation as money within the United States; or
    Whoever passes, utters, publishes, sells, possesses, or brings
    into the United States any false, forged, or counterfeit coin or
    bar, knowing the same to be false, forged, or counterfeit, with
    intent to defraud any body politic or corporate, or any person, or
    attempts the commission of any offense described in this paragraph -

    Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than
    fifteen years, or both.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. snaz

    snaz Registry fever

    I actually had a chance to sit in on an RCMP counterfeit course at the RCNA show in... August... (?) in Edmonton Alberta.
    We were told that under the law in Canada it is illegal to own counterfeit coins. We were told before hand to watch how detailed our questions were, because he didn't want to be put in a situation where he would have to confiscate coins. I was trying hard to ask about collecting for the intent on detection, and possibly teaching others about them, but I was awful far in the back and didn't get a chance to ask the question.
     
  18. blue_oxen

    blue_oxen Junior Member

     
  19. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    I had always thought you could own them (coins) but if you had intent to defraud (sell them as real) you could have legal problems. On a different board someone posted information that you could not even own them. I thought that information was part of the Hobby Protection Act but I can't find it.

    From what I have seen over the years, the Secret Service won't mess with folks that don't have intent to defraud. Conder101 knows this stuff. Maybe he will jump in.
     
  20. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The law is written word for word right there in front of you, it's not hard to understand.

    If - there is no intent to defraud, it is 100% legal to own them.
     
  21. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage

    Well somewhat, it doesn't say anywhere that it's legal to own them. I always believe that if an item is illegal to make, then it's illegal to own. Just like with some types of firearms.

    If I am wrong well then I will learn something new and that's what this forum is all about, right? There's one guy on this forum who has posted a pair of bolt cutters and a sliced up coin and I think he is in law enforcement maybe he can clear this up for me?
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page