Counterfeit certification

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by AndR101, Dec 11, 2019.

  1. AndR101

    AndR101 New Member

    Hi,

    Seems strange wanting certification for counterfeit detection, but a PCGS dealer in who I submitted a coin for rarity grading with PCGS has told me that the coin is counterfeit. I don’t feel comfortable taking their word for it as they don’t have any official certification from PCGS to give to me. What details would someone receive if submitted directly through their own account to PCGS, and any suggestions on how verify everything is legitimate? The coin has distinctive markings to identify it. TIA
     
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  3. Heavymetal

    Heavymetal Well-Known Member

    We would like to guide you. Please show pictures of both sides.
     
    TypeCoin971793 likes this.
  4. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random nobody who doesn’t know anything...

    There is a negative mantra that all coin dealers are out to try and get you, and that they would lie about authenticity/grade/value/etc to screw the customer over. Most aren’t like that. If your dealer thought it was counterfeit, it most likely is.

    Keep in mind that rarity grading costs $300+1% of stated value. This does not even include shipping. You could be wasting hundreds or even thousands of dollars simply because you wanted PCGS to say so.

    As posted above, posting pictures of the suspect coin here is free, and there are many experts on this forum who would be more than happy to let you know if your coin is fake and why they came to that conclusion.

    Here’s an article I wrote on counterfeit detection if you want to learn for yourself:

    https://brna.org/2019/05/28/modern-chinese-counterfeits-of-united-states-coins/
     
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I'm asking for clarification here. Are you saying that you gave the coin to this dealer, he then sent it in to PCGS, and PCGS then returned it saying the coin was a counterfeit ? OR - are you saying you took the coin to the dealer and he himself told you the coin was a counterfeit ?

    If a coin is sent in to PCGS or NGC and they determine it to be a counterfeit, this is what they send back to you.


    [​IMG]


    https://americanrarities.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Body-Bagged-Coin-Group-768x545.jpg
     
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  6. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    If you had a genuine rarity, the dealer would have benefited from submitting it, as he'd essentially have first dibs on buying it or helping you selling it, which would have earned him some money. I would only be suspicious if he offered you melt for it after saying it's counterfeit. If you want more in-depth opinions, post pictures of what you have.
     
  7. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    Note that ICG is currently the only third party grading service that encapsulates counterfeits. They use a yellow label for coins they consider to be fake. All other services would simply return the coin in a flip - see above screenshot.
     
  8. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    As I understand the question the image posted above with the labeled bodybags is exactly what you would get back from NGC and PCGS if they determined your submitted coin is counterfeit. ICG does basically the same per my image below, although they took the safer position of "questionable authenticity":

    1805-icg.jpg

    It appears in your case though the dealer told you it was fake; your options include studying the coin closer yourself or with a trusted expert or group, or directly submitting it to a TPG for authentication.

    To micbraun's point if you send the coin to ICG and check the box to encapsulate it if determined to not be authentic you would receive it back like this:

    1837.jpg

    Best, Jack.
     
  9. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    I believe ICG will only slab the counterfeits if they are contemporary counterfeits, not modern ones. But I'm not sure about that.
     
  10. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    Naw, anything so noted!

    my_S-139_ICG.jpg
     
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