Counterfeit / Altered Coin Of The Day/Week

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Bedford, Jul 23, 2008.

  1. Bedford

    Bedford Lackey For Coin Junkies

    I thought it may be cool & a good educational thread to start-

    It may not be every day but Ill try to post at least one a week-

    If anyone else has a known counterfeit please post it too-

    So here goes , one of the harder types of coins to identify when counterfeitted is gold IMO.

    This 1885-S is a great example-

    I have enlarged & highlighted a few "spikes" that are on the coin from the engravers tool . He was not to careful & these small spikes are the 1st key indicator that the coin is not authentic-

    Spikes like that are a key indicator on probably 70% of the gold that I have seen that is not authentic.
     

    Attached Files:

    sidestick and Peter T Davis like this.
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  3. Bonedigger

    Bonedigger New Member

    Great Post. :thumb: Here is one counterfeit Morgan Dollar of about 19 I received from an O/S dealer (Yep, China) for a very reasonable price of $11.00. Many here know that I've used these coins as prizes in my Bonedigger Contests... :D The weight is off by many grams and the coin's rim is also a telling area. It's deep enough to hold water... :D

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    budgood:
    Wow, for a fake that is a good one!
    Thanks for posting, you also, Ben.
     
  5. johnny54321

    johnny54321 aspiring numismatist

    Interesting. Was that $5 gold piece a struck counterfeit? It looks pretty real to me. The Morgan posted is a much more obvious fake.

    Here is mine, as some of you have seen before. This was a BIG learning experience for me.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Bedford

    Bedford Lackey For Coin Junkies

    Yes it is a struck counterfeit- a darn good one-
     
  7. HandsomeToad

    HandsomeToad Urinist

    I hope it's alright to post Ebay fakes also? :)

    Here is what I believe to be a counterfeit 1773 Virginia Penny:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170240789130&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=007

    I have several and not one has the weird denticles/dots/bumps this one has and is very common on counterfeit colonial era coins. I haven't reported this yet nor have I messaged the seller. I am not 100% sure this is a counterfeit so I figured I'd post in here to get more input before taking the next step. ;)

    Ribbit :)
     
  8. vipergts2

    vipergts2 Jester in hobby of kings

    I've read in the Numismatist that on the struck counterfiets to also look for mint luster in the scratches or gouges. The marks come from the host coin thus pressed into the counterfiet, luster and all.
     
  9. Daggarjon

    Daggarjon Supporter**

    toad .. what will that penny sell for, do you have an estimate as to what a real one would sell for? Im just asking, because with the rather tiny images provided in that auction, its tough to see any finer details!
     
  10. HandsomeToad

    HandsomeToad Urinist

    In the condition it shows (poor pics), I'd say it would normally go for $125 - $175 (Ebay price) and that depends on variety. I see a stop after Rex but it's closer than any I've ever seen and I don't see a stop after George and it looks like it has 7 harp strings. But it's the little dot-denticles that set me off and makes me think it's a counterfeit. Another thing is the current bid is way too low so the other colonial collectors are not bidding, which further gives me cause to think it's a counterfeit.

    Ribbit :)
     
  11. HandsomeToad

    HandsomeToad Urinist

    Here's another coin that is considered to be in the colonial period (1830's actually) that I believe to a counterfeit also.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140251384159&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004

    The reason I believe it to be a counterfeit is because of the edge damage. On a real one, they filed the edges of the planchet to give it a worn look upon minting but the filing marks are clearly visible and on this one, the damage is not filing marks but it is made to resemble a real one with filing marks.

    Here's a real one:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/1783-Colonial-P...goryZ528QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    Ribbit :)

    Ps: I bought one of the counterfeits several months ago so I've had one in my hands to see the difference first hand, so I know what to watch out for now. ;) I got lucky and the seller gave me a full refund. :)
     
  12. HandsomeToad

    HandsomeToad Urinist

    Ps: Here is an example of a authentic 1773 Virginia Half-Penny:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Notice it doesn't have little dots for denticles plus note the distance the lettering is from the edge? :kewl:

    Ribbit :)
     
  13. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    Bud what a convincing counterfeit , is it made of gold , cast or struck , looks struck , thanks for sharing .
    rzage:smile:hatch::hammer:
     
  14. HandsomeToad

    HandsomeToad Urinist

    :goof: @ Rzage

    Ribbit :D
     
  15. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    Should of read all the posts:whistle:was it struck in gold ?
    rzage:smile:hatch::hammer:
     
  16. Hobo

    Hobo Squirrel Hater

    It sure looks like gold to me.

    A favorite tactic of counterfeiters used to be to use less gold than specified for the coin. That way they could make a profit on the coin's gold content.

    Now counterfeiters know they can make more money by selling a fake coin with a high numismatic value to a collector than by selling a fake coin that is short a little gold. The counterfeiters also know that some - perhaps many, but certainly not all - collectors will weigh the coin to make sure it is within Mint specs. They also know that some collectors will even check the specific gravity of the coins. The smart counterfeiters understand that valuable coins receive closer scrutiny than common coins and they will be unable to pass off their wares if their fake coins do not meet the most basic Mint standards for weight and specific gravity.

    So the counterfeiters make sure their fakes of valuable gold coins exactly meet Mint specs. One way they do this is to use coins produced by the US Mint. For example, the counterfeiter will melt down a common Double Eagle that has little value above melt and use that gold for his planchets. The gold will be the exact alloy as that used by the US Mint.

    The counterfeiter also knows that he can make a LOT more profit from eight fake Quarter Eagles or four fake Half Eagles (or some combination) than he can from a single fake Double Eagle with that gold from the donor Double Eagle. If the counterfeiter is smart he will produce a mix of denominations and dates because it would look suspicious to sell several identical rare coins at one time. This requires more work on the part of the counterfeiter in the form of multiple dies and planchet sizes but it will increase his chance of success when selling multiple coins to a single buyer.
     
    Two Dogs likes this.
  17. Daggarjon

    Daggarjon Supporter**

    counterfeiters **** :D

    sorry for my outrage.
     
  18. Bedford

    Bedford Lackey For Coin Junkies


    Yes ,it was - & it was purchased only for the value of the gold that is in it.
     
  19. Bedford

    Bedford Lackey For Coin Junkies

    Coin of the day 7-24-08

    Here is a 1926 $20 St.Gaudens that is not authentic.

    Besides the terrible strike (no detail in the head/hair ) ,there are some spikes or tool lines once again form the engravers tool . In addition there are parts of the design that pass thru other parts such as the ray that is pictured that shows thru the eagles leg-

    Struck in gold - a decent counterfit but easily detectible-
     

    Attached Files:

  20. jaxsdad

    jaxsdad Curmudgeon Collector

  21. Hobo

    Hobo Squirrel Hater

    It doesn't have any of the characteristics of a Proof coin but I suppose there are those that would be fooled because it does not have a mintmark (wink, wink) and the Philly versions of that date are Proof-only.

    It pays to edumacate yourself about coins.
     
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