Counterfeit $20 St Gaudens?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Garlicus, Jun 14, 2019.

?

Looks genuine

  1. Yes

  2. No

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  1. khalil elara

    khalil elara Active Member

    thank you very much for the reply
     
    Seattlite86 likes this.
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  3. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    Of course they used a real slab number on the fake slab. Putting a fake number on a fake slab is just advertising that it's fake. This is a bad copy though that doesn't hold up to any scrutiny. But even if it was a real slab and a real coin, it's obviously not MS65 and should be passed up anyway. Nothing about this says buy me.
     
    GoldFinger1969 and ToughCOINS like this.
  4. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Supporter! Supporter

  5. juris klavins

    juris klavins Well-Known Member

    Use extreme caution when buying gold coins - buy from 100% trusted and well known dealers at reasonable prices - bargain prices should be viewed with suspicion.
    Junk silver coins have none of the risks - the worst that you can get is slick or bent coins, but they're still 90% silver - buy a bogus 'gold' coin and you're out of luck (unless you recognize the fake immediately and can get your $$ back)
     
    Garlicus likes this.
  6. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Certified ower grade (MS-63 and less) St. Gaudens $20 gold pieces are so close to melt, or even below it, that buying and "bargain priced" gold from a fly by night dealer is a stupid move. I can't believe that the stuff is so cheap relative to melt and will stay that way. This has happened before, but not for this long of a period of time.

    The really kick in the butt is counterfeit gold coins in counterfeit holders. That's why you buy from whom you trust.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
    Seattlite86 likes this.
  7. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    The PCGS company has NEVER SEEN this counterfeit gold thing or THIS slab. The crook took a real serial number and placed on his creation to fool you. It's easy to do.

    Slabs and valid serial numbers ARE NOT going to protect you from these scams. You have to be able to spot the bad coins in the fake slab. If you are even more experienced, you will see that the slab is a fake as well.
     
  8. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    It says buy me, stupid!
     
    Seattlite86 and Jaelus like this.
  9. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    That is a fake slab, with a fake label and most likely a fake coin.

    As johnmilton said PCGS has never seen that thing in hand. The counterfeiter made the fake coin and then went to someplace like say Heritage auction archive and searched for double eagles with that date and mintmark. Probably dozens or even hundreds of examples came up. Copy the serial number off the genuine slab and put that number on the fake label you print up. You now have what looks like a PCGS slabbed coin with a serial number that will verify on the PCGS database. And since the database has relatively few images a potential buyer can't see on the database that the coin in the real slab does not match the coin in the fake slab. This is one of the reasons there are a lot more fake PCGS slabs than NGC slabs. NGC has put the images of every coin they have graded in the past 12+ years on their database. So you can not only make sure the serial number matches, you can make sure the coin matches as well.
     
    GoldFinger1969 and Seattlite86 like this.
  10. JeffC

    JeffC Collecting for the fun of it. Supporter

    Hello @ToughCOINS - your explanation really peaked by interest. Is there anyway you can link me to graphics or other educational media which would provide an explanation about ejector pins and injection molding tools? Thanks for your help.
     
  11. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Fake coin in fake slab. Buying slabbed coins is not safe anymore. You actually have to looks at the coins now. It is sad that I even have to say that.

    Some tips for avoiding fake coins in fake slabs:

    1. Does the coin match the grade (ie within 2 grade intervals of what it should be)? A VF won’t be in an AU slab, and an MS-65 won’t be in an AU slab. Sure, “mechanical errors” can exist, but those are rare for grades, and the TPGs would never intentionally make a mistake like that.

    2. Does the coin itself have any diagnostics of fake coins? For example, on this one, the rims are fat and the relief is too low.

    3. Is the holder style correct? This includes the plastic structure, the label, and the gasket holding the coin.

    4. Verify the serial number. NGC pictures all of their coins, and PCGS has some trueviews. Most of these fake slabs are pulled from genuine ones on the internet, usually from Heritage and Great Collections.
     
  12. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    eBay removed the listing.
     
  13. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    Great stuff!
     
    TypeCoin971793 likes this.
  14. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    EBay may have removed the listing but that coin sold for $1650 area.
     
  15. EyeAppealingCoins

    EyeAppealingCoins Well-Known Member

    This is a very bad fake - look at the loss of central detail from whatever die transfer process was used to make the dies to strike it.
     
  16. Bubbles hehehe

    Bubbles hehehe New Member

    A lot of people would like to make money buy selling fake silver or gold coins, they believe that that is a real way to make money, but the only thing that it is, is dishonesty and unjust.
     
    Randy Abercrombie likes this.
  17. Garlicus

    Garlicus Debt is dumb, cash is king.

    Not sure what he (Nick) meant, but the eBay listing can’t be found. The PCGS cert page is still up. Guessing/hoping PCGS reached out to eBay to deal with the seller, and help the unfortunate buyer. Wonder if they reached out to the person that paid for the original certification.

    CF9E4DE9-CF65-4768-BA39-FA5F6B2B8849.jpeg
     
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