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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Insider, post: 2298514, member: 24314&quot;]The response I received:</p><p><br /></p><p>The edge shot (the final of 4 pictures) shows clear evidence that the edge die used was created with a two segment punch.&nbsp; The punch consisted of a single circle and a single rectangle.&nbsp; This punch pattern shows repeated changes of alignment and a repeat in the shapes.&nbsp; Notice the circles are doubled on the punch so that the circles are all sightly doubled on the edge die.&nbsp; This doubling shows on the third photo as well.&nbsp; Any coins with this edge are all fakes.&nbsp; Some coins with this edge are Class 1 (Contemporaries) others are class 3 (Numismatic Forgeries).&nbsp; The difference can usually be identified in other ways. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The genuine colonial edge was created with a three segment punch - the exact punch seen on matrix blocks that have survived from as early as 1772. The punch consisted of a circle a rectangle and a circle.&nbsp; That is the perfect configuration to generate a well aligned edge pattern. There would have been about 5 or 6 successive impressions of the die to create one edge die.&nbsp; The circles were used as the way to align and space the entire edge design. I covered that in my book briefly on page 85.&nbsp; By overlapping the circle, the rectangle remained exactly as shown on the punch and the edge of the punch never cut into the rectangle.&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>Regarding the classification of the coin - I am now leaning toward Class 3 simply because of the way the die was likely created.&nbsp; Your photos show to me a clearly well made accurate depiction of a genuine coin.&nbsp; This is NOT typical of pre-1830 Class 1 Contemporary Counterfeits.&nbsp; The early type typically differ from genuine coins in the fine details. Some are better than others but NONE I have seen are perfect. </p><p><br /></p><p>In the other two pictures there is a feature typical of coins that have been copied onto dies.&nbsp; The dentils stop short of the edge and beyond that point there is a raised rim.&nbsp; That is typical of dies copied by electro-typing, impact transfer or other more modern techniques. The die image can be no bigger than the coin itself.&nbsp; The original dies were always larger than the planchets.&nbsp; The impression of the die runs OVER the edge of the planchet.&nbsp; Since the edge was applied to the coin before the strike there is no reason for post strike distortion of the rim.&nbsp; This coin is more typical of the late Class 1 or Class 2 die type.&nbsp; </p><p>Before 1830 dies could not be created directly from coins EXCEPT by casting.</p><p><br /></p><p>Before 1830 casting was not very well done.&nbsp; The material used for making casts was limited to &quot;green sand&quot;, clay sand molds etc..&nbsp; The introduction of plaster of Paris dates to about this same time period (I am doing research on this point).&nbsp; So how an image could be transferred in 1830 is a key point but one clear point is that a coin image could not be transferred to a die directly. 1830 is before electro-typing was developed. It is before impact transfer was used.&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>In the case of YOUR coin - I would now define it as a LATE (post 1830) Class 1 (under 800 fine coin).&nbsp; These late Class 1 coins like all Class 2 coin can be made with transferred images using post 1830 technologies (to dies or molds).&nbsp; Class 2 coins are full weight or near full weight silver (over 800 fine).&nbsp; Class 2 coins could use fantasy images but rarely do. They typically use fairly accurate representations of coins coupled with a high silver content.&nbsp; They were made in the UK, US and China for sure but likely also in other locations. </p><p>So as of now - even though the density and weight looked good for early Class 1 - the design technology, edge and dentils all point to a later time period. </p><p>Bob </p><p><br /></p><p>Much of this information is in:&nbsp; Counterfeit Portrait eight-Reales, The Un-real Reales by Robert Gurney </p><p><br /></p><p>I will post a photo of the entire coin as soon as our photographer comes in next week.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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