Could the TPG's have all the nice coins?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Kevinfred, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. Kevinfred

    Kevinfred Junior Member

    Are we getting (or going) to a point where decent, problem-free coins are mostly in holders? I'm trying to help a co-collector/friend find a few raw UNC's to finish off his Washingtons. While attended shows we heard this more often than not, "Oh yea... I do have that 37-S but it's in an NGC holder" etc. etc.

    I have cracked a few out for my collection, but it seems almost wasteful...
    Endeavor likes this.
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  3. Tom B

    Tom B TomB Everywhere Else

    As time goes by, I would imagine the pool of high quality, raw classic coins gets smaller and smaller. Of course, some will be purchased already certified and then cracked out to be released again, but this should be a minority.

    I have no doubt that there are still quite a few gorgeous, high end raw coins out there, but I agree that it gets tougher over time to find them.
    Endeavor, geekpryde, green18 and 3 others like this.
  4. aubade21

    aubade21 Well-Known Member

    To be honest, sometimes when I see a nice, high end coin that is not holdered, I wonder if I'm missing something. In the back of my mind I think: was this coin cracked because it was a problem coin and the seller is hoping somebody will gamble on it without knowing its history? I know that thought is not always rational, but its a thought that occurs to me nonetheless.
  5. wcoins

    wcoins GEM-ber

    All the best coins are hidden away in collections, plastic free.
    Endeavor likes this.
  6. Tom B

    Tom B TomB Everywhere Else

    I think this is a common reaction that many folks have. Indeed, I will question a coin from time-to-time under this scenario, too.
    Endeavor and torontokuba like this.
  7. rysherms

    rysherms Alpha Member

    i know exactly what you mean
    torontokuba likes this.
  8. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky Supporter

    I would personally never crack out a coin from a TPG slab in fear of wrecking in the process. even it was a cheap coin. many collectors will tell you it's my coin I will do what I want with it. For me I would only buy a expensive coin only if it is slabbed TPG. I only have 5 slabbed coins now 2 were kind of pricey the others were cheap and not found in raw form. come to a coin show in Las Vegas they have many raw coins and many slabbed coins.
  9. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    A lot of the top coins in rarity and condition are slabbed when they are auctioned , as more are auctioned more will be slabbed . It's a cycle we as a hobby are going through , and to me it's an improvement over the days when you'd go to 5 dealers and get 5 or more different grades .
  10. Detecto92

    Detecto92 Well-Known Member

    There are still plenty of raw coins left, mainly being held by the "old school collectors", in envelopes and 2x2's. I knew a collector in his 80s that passed away about a year ago that had close to $250,000 in collection, all in envelopes, no slabs, no nothing.

    I can't blame people for getting coins slabbed, makes them much easier to sell, and if the coin is on the verge of getting a higher grade, which could be worth hundreds more, then it makes sense to get them sent in.

    There are still plenty of coins out there that cost more than they are worth to get slabbed. I mean why spend $30 to get a coin slabbed when it's worth $30? Common morgan dollars are a prime example.

    Unless the price goes up, or fees get cheaper (seriously doubt the latter), then they will remain raw for a long time.
  11. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Correct me fellows if I'm wrong, but don't the auction houses send the raw coins of a collection off to be graded? That is, if they deem the process worthy. As more collections are auctioned off more coins are being slabbed. Make sense?
    rzage likes this.
  12. coleguy

    coleguy Coin Collector

    I think only a very small percentage of high quality coins are actually slabbed. If I had to guess (let me repeat that...GUESS...before anyone jumps down my throat wanting to know where I got my numbers), I'd say about a quarter of all coins graded in a given year are crack-outs being re-submitted, if not more. Not to mention, most collectors I personally know don't like slabs. We buy them, but crack them out.
    beef1020 and green18 like this.
  13. desertgem

    desertgem MODERATOR Senior Errer Collecktor Moderator

    It is odd that with that many people cracking coins out of slabs that you don't see many 'safe' slab cracker tools. :) Hey Detecto, don't steal my idea! I have plans drawn up and ready to crack!
    spirityoda likes this.
  14. Detecto92

    Detecto92 Well-Known Member

    Why would you crack a coin out of a slab?
  15. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    Many reasons , some just hate the very idea of slabs , or they may be filling a Dansco . Maybe the coin got Detailed , or the coin was dipped and they wanted it to tone a little . Want me to continue ?
  16. d.t.menace

    d.t.menace Member

    So I can add it to the type set in a Capitol holder.
  17. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    It's a collector thingy. Who the devil needs some old fools other opinion? It happens.....:)
  18. d.t.menace

    d.t.menace Member

    There are still some old school dealers that don't beleive in slabbing. My local B&M is one.
  19. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    This is how I feel when shopping online. In hand, I trust myself enough to not worry about it. But, not in photos much can be missed in a photo.
  20. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Too much can be 'juiced' in an online photo...........
  21. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Seriously ?? Just how many nice, or high quality, coins do you think there are ? And who exactly would be the owners of these collections ? And how did they manage to come by these high quality coins, unslabbed, without people in the business (who pretty much know where just about every high quality coin there is resides), knowing about it ? You don't just go pick high quality coins off trees. And how many of these people are going to spend 4, 5, and 6 figures for these coins - if the coins are raw ?

    There are several things that come into play here. Not the least of which is how many coins have been slabbed. Currently, NGC and PCGS, by themselves, have slabbed over 50 million of them. And yeah, lets assume that half of those are moderns, that still leaves 25 million that aren't.

    And who has all these raw, high quality coins ? You can argue the numbers, but there are maybe a million or two coin collectors out there - total. How many of those collect coins that cost those 4, 5, and 6 figures ? It's going to be a pretty small number. And of that number you could probably say pretty safely that, oh, 99% of them only collect slabbed coins.

    And as I said before, how many high quality coins do you think still exist ? And maybe I should ask, how do you define high quality coins ? In the vast majority of cases a high quality coin is going to be MS, with a few of the more scarce ranging down to AU and XF. And of those, in most cases only the higher MS grades are going to be considered high quality. Now TPG population numbers, and the census numbers of coins that have been written about by the most knowledgeable people there are in the hobby put all of them at very low numbers. With many of those you could count them all on your fingers.

    So where are all these high quality coins ? Are they hidden away in drawers and closets with their owners not even aware that they own them ? Yeah, there might be a few like that, but realistically, how many ? And if these coins are hidden away like that, then they aren't being stored properly are they ? And if they aren't stored properly, do you really think they are still high quality ? The ravages of time and toning would tell us that they are most definitely not.

    So no, there are no appreciable numbers of raw, high quality coins out there sitting in the collections of secretive collectors. In the first place high quality coins don't exist in large numbers. In the second place collectors of high quality coins don't exist in large numbers. And in the third place very, very, very, few high quality coins still exist that are unknown - meaning nobody but their owner even knows they exist.

    Now if you wish to deny that, be my guest. But I would find it akin to saying that the sun does not rise in the east.
    Lehigh96 likes this.
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