Could so many be wrong?

Back in March I bought this 1812 CBH at the Baltimore Whitman Coin Expo. Thinking I bought it from a reputable dealer. The story is quite bizarre actually. I went to what I thought was Angel Dees booth. When I arrived I saw an elderly woman standing behind the display cases, right underneath the Angel Dees sign. Naturally I assumed she was with A.D. I looked around for awhile and they had a very nice selection of coins, a few key dates and other assorted small denominational coins. I mentioned I was looking for an 1812 1/2 and an elderly gentleman, by this time had joined in our conversation with what I assumed was his wife, about coins. He showed me this 1812 and boy he was sure proud of it or so it seemed. He sold it to me as an XF and I mentioned I would probably get it graded. He told me it would for sure grade XF and he'd be surprised if it were much lower. ( Turns out this was not Angel Dee's who sold me the coin )

Fast forward a month and I send it in to NGC through an LCS. Before I send out any coin to grade through them the guy at the coin shop will offer his advice on the grade and whether or not to send it in. He was all for finding out the grade, a little dark for his taste but a nice coin. Well here are the results. If cleaned what are we missing? He says I should send it in for regrade. Other collectors I showed it too can't see any evidence of cleaning. What are we missing if cleaned?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

If you take a 10X loupe , or even a 5X under a good light and slowly rotate the coin looking for hairlines . Sometimes you will only see them at a certain angle and not any other so it's important to look very carefully . I'm not saying that's the case but it could well be .

 

I have seen Ngc change a grade before by re submission.
It's your money.

 

Sometimes the label "imp cleaning" implies the coin doesn't have enough luster for its grade. It may have been dipped too many times (overdipped) in the past and that's why they put it in a bodybag. You could try to submit it to a different grading company instead of resubmitting it to NGC.

 

Highly unlikely it was Angel Dee's.
They deal mostly in small cents.
And neither Andy nor Alynne are elderly.
In their 40's max.

 

Nice looking coin. Where you went wrong was wasting your money for a TPG opinion.

 

The lack of luster for the detail and the also in my estimation there should be more dark tone around the central devices ( such as the eagle head ) as there is around the center part of the stars ( which usually can't be cleaned completely). Photos often show coins poorly, so I wouldn't say ~ absolutely! The aura around the eagle head looks odd to me. I think you would get the same result again.

 

Not to bash you coin or anything, but even if it isn't cleaned, the multiple rim dings may prevent it from a straight grade.

 

Regardless of any cleaning the coin may or may not have, it sure looks cool. Just look at the talons on that eagle...

 

Yeah but it's not hard to rule out. With all the other coins graded second look maybe Better outcome. Pcgs is a other avenue if you want to get a different companies opinion. It's your money.

 

Thanks for your replies. If I end up sending it out again, I'll post the results. I don't have four other coins to grade at the moment. If I want graded I usually buy graded.

 

I have never had much luck going back the second time with NGC or PCGS.

 

Did you contsct the show promoter? It's common for dealers to move if a better space is availale, but they should have taken down the sign. The promoter should be able to provide contact information for the dealer you patronized...

 

Doug are you talking about those lines that go every which way as that's what I see now .

 

Not that this has anything to do with cleaning, but what causes the tips of the stars to extend to the rim?

 

When the die wears in an open collar the movement of metal wears down the dies and gradually the stars and other devices move towards the rim . This is gradual and most pronounced in LDS coins .

 

Thanks for the explanation rzage! That certainly makes for a cool effect on the coin.

 

That's one of the reasons I actively collect them now . Open collared coins just are a different animal and I love elongated stars and letters .

 

It's a rare raw early silver coin that has NOT been cleaned at some point in its life.