Cool Video showing the NGC grading process at Anaheim

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by physics-fan3.14, Aug 21, 2016.

  1. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I don't know how many of you have seen this, but CoinWeek posted a really cool video showing the entire grading process during a walkthrough at Anaheim. I have a number of observations, which I'll post later, but I *highly* encourage everyone to watch this video. The first half is them grading and going through the process, and the second half is NGC's president Mark Salzberg going through the order and explaining the grades for each coin. This guy is one of the best graders on the planet, and listening to him explain grades for coins is one of the fastest, and most interesting, ways to learn how to grade. So, give the video a watch, and lets talk about it:

     
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  3. coinguy-matthew

    coinguy-matthew Ike Crazy

    Thanks for the sharing I enjoyed it.
     
  4. TJ1952

    TJ1952 Well-Known Member

    Thanks very much for that!
     
  5. jtlee321

    jtlee321 Well-Known Member

    I saw this video posted on the NGC boards. It was very interesting. I enjoyed it very much.
     
  6. Dimedude2

    Dimedude2 Member

    very informative. the grade selection process looks fair.
     
  7. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Thanks for the video Jason. Really cool.
     
  8. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    I noticed the two magnifiers on the grader's station and that he seemed to use them very frequently.
     
  9. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Great video, but a lot of us don't collect gold. Still, the points made by the final grader were educational. I will say that all observations made by the final grader could be applied to all denominations. One thing that struck me.........I was always told that the graders didn't use a loupe to determine their grades, and yet I see the initial grader using a loupe on numerous occasions.

    Again, educational, informative, and most interesting. Thanks for posting this Physics-fan.
     
    Paul M. likes this.
  10. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    Why was the grader using his bare hands on the coin...
     
    fish4uinmd likes this.
  11. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Because he had his socks and shoes on.........

    That's the way they do it bro. Gloves interfere with dexterity.
     
  12. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    Huh. I remember getting chastised for putting coins in my albums with bare fingers. But if the pros do it...
     
  13. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    You are talking two different things. The grader is not pushing the coin in an album. He is only touching the edges of the coin.
     
  14. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    One of the PCGS videos said most use 5-7x with up to 20x for attribution and authenticity. I suspect it probably varies grader to grader how much they actually use them. Seemed like he was just checking a few things with the loupe as opposed to actually completely grading with it in the video
     
    Paul M. likes this.
  15. coinguy-matthew

    coinguy-matthew Ike Crazy

    Yea gold is probably his strong suit, they should have thrown an Ike in to throw him off they are pretty terrible at grading those....:cigar:
     
    Paul M. likes this.
  16. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    Lots of good stuff in that video. As requested in the OP, I'll talk about what I observed:

    1. If you noticed how the grader and finalizer looked at the coins, the first thing they did was identical between the two. No magnification, dramatic tilting of the coin with a circular motion. When you have a light you're used to using, you can quickly and easily see problems in the surfaces and assess the luster of the coin. Magnification was used at the grader's discretion as necessary. Be consistent with your light and magnification.

    2. For the Bechtler piece, lots of discernment of the surfaces under whatever magnification and lighting was necessary to get the job done. Sometimes, problems with surfaces show up best in bad light when a patch of hairlines just catches a tiny bit of light while the rest of the coin is dark.

    3. The "5 seconds per coin" myth is just that -- a myth. Graders will grade around 800 coins per day, and while an initial impression may take 5 seconds, being sure of it takes a little longer.

    4. Salzberg used the term "backing into it" to explain a grade. I've sort of used this approach to interpolate what a grade must be by what it isn't.

    5. The 1868 $10 caused discussion among graders because the cleaning was too severe to arrive at a consensus on the grade. This is an interesting spin on "market acceptable" and can provide insight as to why problems are forgiven on some coins and not others.

    6. I did not agree with the 01-S Morgan being 65+ by a longshot. Maybe the video camera had an "ugly stick" filter on it.

    7. Most explanations of the grades came with an explanation of the characteristics of the individual date/mint for that coin. This is something you really need to know when grading AU and higher, and in some cases lower, coins.
     
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  17. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Very good, points, Messy. I agree with your 01-S assessment, but I think the camera was severely unflattering to that one.

    Here are some thoughts, questions that I had while viewing it:

    1. How does "show grading" differ from grading in the permanent office? It seems like the setup is fairly similar, but are there any unique challenges to show grading?

    2. It seemed like Scott was spending a lot of time on each coin. We've always heard that they spend "a few seconds" grading each coin. Was he taking longer because these coins were interesting, or because he was being video'd, or do graders actually take longer than "a few seconds"?

    3. Every coin that was shown being graded had some sort of magnification used. I noticed Scott had a loupe (what power does he use? 10x?) and he had a larger magnifier (I'm assuming 3x?) We've always heard that graders primarily use "naked eye," and don't use magnification often. Is there something that triggers using magnification, in your experience? What sort of situations will you pull out a magnifier, and when would you pull out a loupe?

    4. In the stacks of holders, I noticed some with 3 prongs. What coins get 3 pronged holders?

    5. Salzberg does not seem to be a fan of prooflikes. Oh well, its a free country and he can be wrong if he wants to [​IMG]

    6. Sweet vindication! Mark Salzberg, on video, saying a fingerprint precludes a 66 grade.
     
  18. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Scott Schecter (the grader in the video), was kind enough to respond to many of the questions that have been raised on the NGC thread. You can read the whole thread here http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9523459&fpart=1 , but I have also copied Scott's response. He mentions several topics which come up frequently (and have been mentioned here, such as gloves), and his response is extremely helpful:

     
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  19. fish4uinmd

    fish4uinmd Well-Known Member

    Jason, I did watch this...very worth while...thanks for sharing. What I did see that surprised me a bit was the bare hands fondling the gold coins.
     
  20. fish4uinmd

    fish4uinmd Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure, but I think they use baby wipes to clean their hands prior...but still, it's an unwritten rule to wear gloves.
     
  21. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I'm not sure what kind of album you are referring to, but many of them have to be pushed in. This requires your fingers contact the face of the coin - which is strongly discouraged. Notice in the video that he only touches the edges of a coin.

    If you read Scott's explanation of that in the quoted post above, or in the NGC thread I linked, I think you will see that it makes a good bit of sense. I *highly* encourage everyone here to use gloves - but those guys are in another league and gloves would be a hindrance to them (for the reasons Scott explains).
     
    Paul M. likes this.
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