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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;krispy, post: 626670, member: 19065&quot;]Agreeing to those two definitions alone is a narrow definition and a personal preference which doesn&#039;t sum it up. It doesn&#039;t acknowledge a lot of other factors. That you would collect it yourself implies personal sentimental or curiosity value as it&#039;s novelty attracted you or your tendency to collect/hoard made you do it. If those who agree to these terms alone totally disagreed with allowing the existence of &#039;counter-stamped&#039; coins, then upon finding it they might as well destroy it for fear of it devaluing traditional coin collecting. Potential numismatic value <u>can</u> still exist for such a &#039;counter-stamped&#039; piece. That you do not see any value in this does not make it wholly worthless to others. Of course the lack of rarity at this time is a devaluing factor, just like squashed tourist souvenir coins are &#039;worthless&#039; as they are altered, not rare, out of circulation and not collected by numismatists. However, the coins in question still remain a coin and continues to hold its function and value as a monetary device. With people culling it from circulation there is a high probability that other numismatists are likewise interested in such a &#039;counter-stamped&#039; coin design but they do not assess value or trade them. If the coins rarity becomes known or accepted and if a body of collectors emerge in favor of these coins they WILL suddenly have a value previously overlooked. Regardless of how a &#039;counter-stamped&#039; coin fairs against a flawless or rare coin without alterations, or whether or not it is interesting to coin collectors, it still has a power unto itself and belongs in its own category, hence the original question, what to call such a coin with alterations? There are after all art museums that display faked Vermeers and Van Goghs amongst other master paintings, which are collected following scandals, displayed and continue to intrigue the public and admirers of fine art or those keen on curatorial matters. Look up the story and work of Van Meegeren for one such example. Some of these counterfieters of paintings continue on in a legal sense long after the scandal to a career making reproductions and in assisting authorities in detection or understanding the techniques of fraud. Counterfeit coins have a numismatic value as well, mainly as an educational tool and for those who study to prevent counterfeiting once detected and removed from circulation and prosecuted if possible. I don&#039;t advocate counterfeiting of art, coins or anything else, as well, that&#039;s another topic. I do not personally know any counterfeit coin collectors but I imagine with fair certainty that they exist. Point is that despite some who dismiss &#039;counter-stamped&#039; coins from a traditional lexicon of coin collecting and consideration due to it&#039;s altered or &#039;counter-stamped&#039; state, it remains for others an area of interest and potential worth, even if generations after we exist the interest/value rises. If demand in trade of &#039;counter-stamped&#039; coins were present, no matter how low in value such a piece might fetch there IS numismatic value, just not to all in the community. This is just not so easily dismissed as a matter of stating ones opinion in a non-objective manner, as was pointed out earlier in the tread. </p><p><br /></p><p>Like those cross punched cent coins, the Masonic &#039;counter-stamped&#039; coin or the Lincoln cents with mini Kennedy portraits &#039;counter-stamped&#039; they are novelty to me personally, and are collected as such. Yet, I would not dismiss a certain degree of importance nor potential value. They merely need accurate categorization so that everyone understands their place in the world of coins, collecting and values, if any value exists.</p><p><br /></p><p>:smile[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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