Contemporary Counterfeits

Some more:

1. is a Brunswick Wolfenbuttel 24 mariengroschen silvering worn off



2. is a Saxony 2/3 thaler silvering nigh on intact but copper showing through in places



3. is a Kremnitz mint (Hungary) 1/2 thaler of good old Leo the Hogmouth. Actually struck in silver of a lower grade than real coin.



4. An Eritrean Tallero. Would you be able to tell that it's a fake?

 

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Not me. From the photos it appears to be well struck. What's the tipoff - or does it require an in-hand inspection?

 

The Tallero would fool nigh on anyone IMHO), even with a close visual inspection . More so if it were in a flip / holder of any kind. The only effective key to that one is its weight. Having said that, if it were out of a holder and you are used to handling silver coins, you might just notice that it doesn't quite `feel' right (in a tactile sense). Most people wouldn't twig to that though and would shy away from physically handling a coin that appears to be in pristine condition. It is one of the most convincing to the eye i've come across to date.

 

Hi Everyone,

Nice examples of my second favorite subject (first being original portrait 8 reales). I would like to add a contemporary counterfeit piece to the post, as well:



The above coin is an original 1842, Style 1, Zacatecas 8 Reales. It's a member of the production of this mint in the first couple months of 1842 - before they converted to the Coin Axis orientation. The die style is the one used 1825-1842. It was changed in 1842 to a different design.

Here's the later design, Style 2, (image courtesy of Novacoins). Notice the head of the snake, head and feathers of the eagle, location of the rays...



Here's the counterfeit: Notice the reversed superscript "s" in "Zs", "Ds" and "Gs" and the "hand-cut" features of the eagle (head, snake, feather pattern).



~Roman

 

Here's a fake portrait 8 reales. See if you can spot the give away.

 

Um, he was dead in 1792?

or not: nació en Nápoles el 11 de noviembre de 1748, murió el 19 de Enero de 1819 en Nápoles.

 

This fake is the right weight, but what you can't tell from the image is that it is slightly oversized. If it were the right size it would be the typical 2 grams or so underweight. So weight on its own isn't always a fool proof indicator. You need to take actual size into consideration too.

Now, this `fake' is also silver....just not quite the .917 that it should be. I wouldn't expect most of you to tell that just from the image either, but I know that some of you could.

THE main giveaway (IMHO) requires that you know a little bit about Mexico 8 reales and my first question would be `who or what does the HJ initials in the reverse legend refer to? They don't appear on colonial Mexican coinage until 1809.....yet this coin has them dated 1792'. While there is always a possibility that an obverse 1792 somehow managed to muled with a reverse 1809 it should be enough of a discrepancy to ring alarm bells big time.

There are a couple of very dubious design characteristics one of which includes the look on Charlies face...etc

Ian



A good example of why you should buy the book before you buy the coin.

 

the first 8 real that roman shows in his pic looks fake, six sided star im not an exper so I could be wrong
but see this

 

While being no expert in 8R's I do notice differences between Roman's coin and the example you provide. Look at the position of the tip of the eagles beak in relation to the `M' in Mexico on Roman's example. Now look at this focal point in relation to the fake example you provide. This shows that Roman's is not a match to the fake. That does not necessarily mean that his is a genuine example but I suspect that it probably is.

 

Here's a couple of struck examples of the pillar dollars. Both examples were struck in copper and given a silver coating, which as you can see has worn off nigh on completely on one, and significantly on the other. I wonder how `potent' these would have been if their silvering had remained intact. As it is, it appears to me that they have indeed circulated as fakes. Whether in the marketplace or between collectors I couldn't say.........

 

Here's a real and a fake Napoleonic 20 reales from Spain. The first is the real one. it's darkly toned and difficult to scan. However there's enough detail evident to do a comparison with and spot the differences.

 

That's a nice and scarce 20 Reales you have there, Ian. The counterfeit made me chuckle after looking at the crown and the ear It doesn't have a contemporary feel to it, to me, though. You think it is?

~Roman

 

Thanks.

It may well be stretching it to call that fake `contemprary' . To be honest, i'm not 100% sure either way. However, it wasn't made yesterday and it isn't typical of the counterfeits of the 1950's - 60's either. Hence my guess is that is was manufactured sometime between the mid 1808 and the early 1900's. It's the first (and only) fake of that type coin i've come across to date .

Some aspects of it are better than normal for a fake, for example the edge engrailing (obviously not shown) is nearly spot on and the silvering is a bit better than i've seen. On the downside however, you quickly noticed the ear and the crown . Pretty damning, I agree. Joseph's mouth has also been re-styled. A closer comparison between the two will show that there's far more `wrong' with the fake than there is `right'. Nevertheless, some poor collector who hasn't seen a real one or who doesn't have reference to one might be sufficiently convinced (suckered) by it......especially if priced as a bargain (as is normally the case with people trying to palm off counterfeits).

 

Here is a fake Hong Kong 10 Cents 1891 (it's not silver)
http://www.avscoins.com/showcoin.php?cat=Hong%20Kong&id=HK-17
I doubt that a mintmaster would have been in Victoria's favour after portraying her with such a nose .
The coin is small, its weight is OK, so I supposed it could have passed for an original in circulation.

 

LOL I like that one & see what you mean about her not liking the portrait Ian that copper $ is superb :thumb:

De Orc

 

Ian,that Piece of 20 of the Usurper-King Joseph Napoleon is a very difficult coin to find.The forgery sticks out like a sore thumb,as the soapy colour gives it away as being a dud.

Aidan.

 

Aidan, you are correct but bear in mind that you are commenting on a fake which has long since reached the end of its `active' existence. While now it might only fool the newbie, or those who are optically challenged, it would not always have been so readily `outed'.

Ian

 

Ian,you will be pleased to know that I saw a really nice genuine Bank of England $1 when I popped into work to show my boss an example of the 2006 issue of the New Zealand plastic $10 note.He had bought in a really nice English & British coin collection.The only Scots coin in it was a 1707E Edinburgh 1/2 Crown.When I looked at the obverse of the Bank of England $1,I said to the boss,"This reminds me of the Bank of Ireland 6/- piece,which has always eluded me along with the British 3/- pieces".He laughed.

Aidan.