Conservation tips? 1874 Indian Cent

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by TypeCoin971793, Jul 30, 2016.

  1. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    I tried a 5-10 minute dip in acetone, and nothing happened. Tips?

    image.jpeg image.jpeg
     
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  3. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    What are you trying to do?
    Acetone will not affect the toning.
    As to the "stuff" around ONE/CENT and down by the ribbon, not knowing what it is I can't offer suggestions.
     
  4. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    The dark stuff around the devices appears to be gunk, and I am trying to remove it to boost resalability.
     
  5. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    If it's gunk then you have a chance.
    Acetone and a VERY light and careful nudging at it with a toothpick.
    But I'd wait for a more experienced opinion before trying the toothpick part.
    I don't try conserving coins so there may be a better method.
     
  6. RonSanderson

    RonSanderson Supporter! Supporter

    I am interested in your question, too.

    I am trying the same thing with this 1931-D. I am alternating between acetone and xylene. I've given it a couple of hours in each so far, and I am making a little progress. So far the ridges of the wheat ears have appeared, but there is still gunk in the grooves.

    I am currently giving it a 24-hour soak in xylene and I will post a picture tomorrow so we can both see how that is working (or not). This is the original condition, from the seller's photo.
    01c 1931D reverse 01 detail.jpg
     
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Think about what it is that you are trying to do. You're trying to remove a build up of a combination of plain ordinary dirt, body and finger oils, and corrosion caused by simple exposure to the air - all that have accumulated over a period of years or even decades. And accumulated in tight, protected spaces, and become hard, compacted, and resistant to any type of removal. And you're trying to do it on copper coins, coins that are the most susceptible to undesirable color changes.

    My point is this - at best it is very difficult to do. And at the same time it is very easy to ruin the coin with your efforts.

    And while acetone and xylene work well on soaking into and removing some things, they often don't work well on other things. On some things, a long soak in ordinary distilled water works best. And that's why that is what you should always start with.

    In the end, you might, or might not have limited success. But limited success is about the best you can hope for. And once achieved you should let it go at that.
     
  8. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    That, right there.

    Moreover, what happens if you successfully remove the encrustation? You're left with exposed surfaces which didn't age at the same rate as the "cleaner" surfaces, and the coin will look obviously cleaned.

    The hardest part of coin conservation is choosing appropriate candidates. I don't believe this is one.
     
    BadThad likes this.
  9. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Agree with Doug about starting with water...won't hurt and could do a world of good. The xylene and acetone should degrease it very well. Touching it could be hazardous to its health. Wonder if @Insider would consider this good for an ultrasonic cleaner?
     
  10. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    @TypeCoin971793

    PM me, there is too much going on with your coin for me to take the time to type. Then you can share what I tell you over the phone on Monday.

    Til' then, I should leave it alone while you continue to read all the suggestions that will be made here on CT. ;) Then, you make the decision.

    Much of that stuff will come off, but there is some corrosion, dirt, and white debris (I'll bet the white appeared after the acetone soak!). Ultrasonic in hot MS-70 + some "work" using a stereo scope will make it more presentable. I'll give you multi-step process to try that I have posted before somewhere on CT.

    @RonSanderson Much of the black on your Lincoln cent is dirt and oils, common on old copper. The green gunk inside the "U" and some of the black should come off with the soak.

    TPGS conservation specialists do not have the "time" to soak coins. It is not "cost effective." :facepalm: I have learned there are more quicker methods to improve both coins above by "pickin-their-brains."
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  11. RonSanderson

    RonSanderson Supporter! Supporter

    And limited success would be fine. The Lincoln is a bit dinged up, as you can see.

    If I could make the wheat ears just a little cleaner so they are not mired in goo, that would fit the character of the coin.

    I am eager to see what the OP can achieve.
     
  12. RonSanderson

    RonSanderson Supporter! Supporter

    @TypeCoin971793

    I think @Insider will help you more than I will, but here is the results of soaking in xylene. First I have the seller's obverse, then my results. 01c 1931D obverse 01.jpg

    The green spot at the back of the head is gone. 01c 1931D obverse 02.jpg

    Here is the original reverse, from the seller's photo.
    01c 1931D reverse 01.jpg

    And the results. Notice the difference next to the E in E PLURIBUS - the green spot is gone. And the crud no longer covers the high ridges in the wheat ears.
    01c 1931D reverse 03 detail.jpg
    For completeness, the full reverse.
    01c 1931D reverse 02.jpg

    I think the coin is more enjoyable overall. Although I am never going to turn it into an MS64, it is now very attractive to me, and looks appropriate for its grade.
     
    Insider likes this.
  13. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    NICE JOB! That puppy is done.
     
    RonSanderson likes this.
  14. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Right now, it is soaking overnight in acetone. It won't chemically hurt the coin, and I really don't have anything financially to lose.

    @Insider I will PM you tomorrow if I have negligible results.
     
  15. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

  16. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Probably time for some of @BadThad 's VerdiCare.
     
  17. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Here are the reasons why your coin was a better candidate for conservation than the OP's:

    1) Green. Whether or not you actually do something to a coin, green color must be contemplated for action whenever you see it.

    2) Smaller areas of spot coverage, meaning complete removal would show smaller "new" surfaces.

    3) Far less "patina" than the IHC. The OP coin has a lot of stuff all over it, and only a very small percentage of the surface showing anything like original color. Your coin is quite the opposite, with very little buildup obscuring the original copper color.

    And you demonstrated admirable restraint by not working on the coin until all the spots were completely removed.
     
    RonSanderson likes this.
  18. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    I don't know why the attachments errored out. Let me try again.

    image.jpeg image.jpeg
     
  19. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    Not every coin should be conserved. Collectors are TOO QUICK in their impulse to "remove gunk". In general, while corrosion should be removed to halt the destructive process, a little bit of gunk and dirt should usually be left alone. Personally, I like seeing "old, original" dirt and gunk on the coin while I'm shopping. I have many "dirty" coins in my collection....and I like them that way.
     
    Pickin and Grinin likes this.
  20. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    To each his own. I hate dirty coins. I cannot stand to look at them when I know that non-evasive measures can make many of them "clean." ;)
     
  21. RonSanderson

    RonSanderson Supporter! Supporter

    I may be in the middle. Or at least have opinions on both sides.
    • The OP's latest reverse shows much more detail in the leaves. They now have veins and before they didn't. There is now more coin exposed to see and enjoy.
    • But, a little dirt also can give some contrast to some devices.
    • And when I am looking at vendor's pictures, seeing dirt gives me comfort that a coin has not been cleaned.
    • And dirt gives additional character to show the life history of the coin.
    Since I have some that came in a set and have stains (perhaps from mishandling), I want to fix those issues. That just restores the coin back to its underlying condition.

    For a coin that proudly shows its history and still looks attractive, I appreciate that it has made it through all these years, and I don't want to take that history away from it.

    So I agree with @Insider that some things need restored, and with @BadThad that some things get left alone. After all, I just have temporary stewardship over these coins before they go on to someone else. (Just not anytime soon!)
     
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