Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Conrad and Cnut --or is that, Konrad and Knut?
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="+VGO.DVCKS, post: 6502547, member: 110504"]...Mix and match? From a medieval kind of place, it’s easy to see how people might wax nostalgic for sprawling, intercontinental empires, presided over by safely dead, duly sanitized languages. Simplifies the orthography, if little enough else. In a corresponding vein, I’m going with the more Latinate versions of both names.</p><p><br /></p><p>Landed this not long ago. Naturally, the main selling point was the facing portrait. Conrad in all his early-11th century numismatic glory.</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1259817[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1259819[/ATTACH]</p><p>German empire. Conrad II, Emperor 1027-1039. AR denar of Deventer (modern Netherlands).</p><p>Obv. Facing portrait, crowned and bearded.</p><p>(Ostensible full legend: ) CONRADVS IM[perator].</p><p>Rev. (Ostensible full legend: ) DAVENTRIA.</p><p>Cf. Dannenberg 566, with two ensuing legend variants; 567. Various blundering of the obverse legend is noted for each example; none of the four is an exact match, even to the elements that are struck up. ...It’s the early 11th century, and, to paraphrase ‘The Wizard of Oz,’ we’re not in Anglo-Saxon England anymore (cf. the less than stellar example below). For continental issues of the period, this is most of what you get.</p><p><br /></p><p>Conrad’s coronation in Rome, as the first German emperor of the Salian dynasty, was attended by Cnut, the Danish king of England (1016-1035). In this instance, Cnut comes across as having been combining political business with pereginational pleasure. (Lawson 108-9; cf. Rumble 18, 38, 41.) The 11th-c. monastic chronicler Adam of Bremen --no more consistently reliable for his relative contemporaneity-- adds color to the events: “Accompanying [Conrad] on the expedition [to Italy, for the coronation] was King Canute, very dreadful in his power over the barbarian peoples of three realms [England, Denmark and Norway].” (P.100. Since Adam is an 11th-century German, one might, however anachronistically, detect a whiff of classical Freudian transference here. ...Um, witness the coins.)</p><p>To the extent that we can rely on 13th-century Scandinavian sources, pilgrimages by 11th-century Vikings might come across as less untypical than one would suppose. The highly embroidered, late 13th-century Njal’s Saga provides an evocative account of a similar undertaking by an Icelander, Flosi Thordarson, as of c. 1016. Following one of the last murders in the attendant feud, Flosi is purported to have gone to Rome, “where he was accorded the great honour of receiving absolution at the hands of the Pope himself; he paid a large sum of money for it.” (P. 353; cf. 376 for the approximate, possibly fictional chronology.)</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1259821[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1259822[/ATTACH]</p><p>Kingdom of England. Cnut, 1016-1035. Penny of London, Helmet type, c. 1024 -1030.</p><p>Obv. Cnut facing left, holding sceptre, helmeted, wearing a cloak, secured by a broach (circle with a pellet in the center). +CNVT RECX A: (/Cnut Rex Anglorum.)</p><p>Rev. Elaborate cross, evoking Anglo-Saxon and Celtic depictions in other media. +PYNSTAN ON LUN (Wynstan, moneyer in London).</p><p>(North 787; Style II (p. 169, w/ minor variants in the legend; p. 175 for the moneyer.)</p><p><br /></p><p>Cnut had wrested England from AEthelred II and his successor, Edmund Ironside. Thanks to several Danegelds, paid to the Vikings over preceding decades, AEthelred’s pennies circulated across the breadth of the late Viking world. (Jones 364-5; cf. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danegeld#Anglo-Saxon_era" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danegeld#Anglo-Saxon_era" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danegeld#Anglo-Saxon_era</a>.) The ‘Long Cross’ type corresponds to a Danegeld (1002) that weighed in at 24,000 very literal pounds (loc. cit.).</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1259829[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1259830[/ATTACH]</p><p>England. AEthelred II (r. 978 -1013 / 1014 -1016). ‘Long Cross’ penny, c. 997-1003.</p><p>Obv. AEthelred facing left.</p><p>(From 7 o’clock: ) AEÐELRAED RE+ ANGLO[-RVM].</p><p>Rev. Long voided cross. (From 9 o’clock: ) DR [/] ENG [/] M = O [/] LINC</p><p>(Dreng (a Scandinavian name), moneyer in Lincoln --a conspicuous part of the ‘Danelaw,’ where Viking settlement had concentrated since the later 9th century.) North 774.</p><p>The Vikings’ penchant for extortion on a royal scale was complemented by a no less pronounced aptitude for international trade. Thanks to this, the AEthelred type was imitated, not only by Viking mints from Dublin to Sweden, but in Germany, upriver from the Frisian coast.</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1259834[/ATTACH]</p><p>Conrad II, Emperor 1027 -1039. Similarly munched denar of Dortmund.</p><p>Obv. Profile to left, with the same quasi-Celtic, rayonnant hair as AEthelred. (From three o’clock: ) +CONRADVS RE[X] (relentlessly retrograde).</p><p>Rev. Short cross; pellets in angles.</p><p>(From 11 o’clock --but no less retrograde: ) +CONRADVS RE[X].</p><p>Dannenberg 756, variant reverse legend.</p><p>The variously retrograde and otherwise blundered legends of Conrad’s</p><p>royal issues can be seen as symptomizing his own illiteracy. The contemporary chronicler Wipo implicitly likens him to Charlemagne, who, while similarly afflicted, pursued available, mainly clerical avenues toward the rebuilding of a literate culture. (Mommsen et al. Wipo, “The Deeds of Conrad II” p. 72; cf. Introduction, p. 19.)</p><p><br /></p><p>By contrast, Conrad’s son and successor, Heinrich III (‘King of the Romans [/Germany]’ from 1028; German emperor 1046-1056) was conspicuously literate. (Cf. Weinfurter 85-7.) But his coins demonstrate a no less pragmatic involvement in Scandinavian trade.</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1259840[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1259841[/ATTACH]German empire. Heinrich III: denar of Speyer.</p><p>Facing portrait; ship with three oars. Dannenberg 830.</p><p>While this example demonstrates a discrete improvement on Conrad’s issues, it also features a a ship. Since it was minted as far up the Rhine as Speyer, it presumably represents a vessel with a suitably shallow draft for riverine navigation; possibly with influence from Viking ship design. (The viking longship, with its capacity to sail far upriver, was key to the success of Viking raids and invasions throughout Europe from 9th century CE onward. It was sort of the Viking equivalent of the Panzer tank.) The coin’s Estonian provenance, along with its distinctively Scandinavian peck marks, suggest a correspondingly active life.</p><p>...Since there might be room for one more pic on this post, here’s Cnut and his wife, Emma /Aelfgigu (OE: ‘Elves’ Gift), from a contemporaneous manuscript. They’re shown donating a gilt cross to the New Minster in Winchester. (Cf. Lawson (134-) 135.) Cnut’s patronage of native ecclesiastical institutions --with corresponding influence on them-- echoes the engagement of Conrad and Heinrich III in Germany, along with Lawson’s observations regarding similar dynamics between the contemporary Robert II Capet, and the clerical establishment in France (loc. cit.). ...Explicit religious imagery ensues; viewer discretion is advised.</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1259843[/ATTACH]</p><p>Primary sources.</p><p>Adam of Bremen. History of the Archbishops of Hamburg-Bremen. Ed. trans. Francis J. Tschan and Timothy Reuter. New York: Columbia U P, 2002.</p><p>Mommsen and Morison, eds. /transs. Imperial Lives And Letters of the Eleventh Century. New York: Columbia U P, 2000.</p><p>Njal’s Saga. Ed. /trans. Magnus Magnusson and Herman Palsson. 1960. Baltimore: Penguin Classics, 1967.</p><p>Sturluson, Snorri. Heimskringla: History of the Kings of Norway. Ed. /trans. Lee M. Hollander. 1964. Austin: U of Texas P, 1991.</p><p><br /></p><p>Secondary sources.</p><p>Jones, Gwynn. A History of the Vikings. 1968. Oxford: Oxford U P, 1984.</p><p>Lawson, M. K. Cnut: The Danes in England in the Early Eleventh Century. London: Longman, 1993.</p><p>Rumble, Alexander R., ed. The Reign of Cnut. 1994. London: Leicester U P, 1999.</p><p>Weinfurter, Stefan. The Salian Century: Main Currents in an Age of Transition. Ed. /trans. Barbara M. and Charles R. Bowlus. 1992. Philadelphia: U of Pennsylvania P, 1999.</p><p> ...It would be great to see anything anyone cared to post, relating to the Viking Age, only most especially the later phases, c. later 10th -mid-11th centuries CE.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="+VGO.DVCKS, post: 6502547, member: 110504"]...Mix and match? From a medieval kind of place, it’s easy to see how people might wax nostalgic for sprawling, intercontinental empires, presided over by safely dead, duly sanitized languages. Simplifies the orthography, if little enough else. In a corresponding vein, I’m going with the more Latinate versions of both names. Landed this not long ago. Naturally, the main selling point was the facing portrait. Conrad in all his early-11th century numismatic glory. [ATTACH=full]1259817[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1259819[/ATTACH] German empire. Conrad II, Emperor 1027-1039. AR denar of Deventer (modern Netherlands). Obv. Facing portrait, crowned and bearded. (Ostensible full legend: ) CONRADVS IM[perator]. Rev. (Ostensible full legend: ) DAVENTRIA. Cf. Dannenberg 566, with two ensuing legend variants; 567. Various blundering of the obverse legend is noted for each example; none of the four is an exact match, even to the elements that are struck up. ...It’s the early 11th century, and, to paraphrase ‘The Wizard of Oz,’ we’re not in Anglo-Saxon England anymore (cf. the less than stellar example below). For continental issues of the period, this is most of what you get. Conrad’s coronation in Rome, as the first German emperor of the Salian dynasty, was attended by Cnut, the Danish king of England (1016-1035). In this instance, Cnut comes across as having been combining political business with pereginational pleasure. (Lawson 108-9; cf. Rumble 18, 38, 41.) The 11th-c. monastic chronicler Adam of Bremen --no more consistently reliable for his relative contemporaneity-- adds color to the events: “Accompanying [Conrad] on the expedition [to Italy, for the coronation] was King Canute, very dreadful in his power over the barbarian peoples of three realms [England, Denmark and Norway].” (P.100. Since Adam is an 11th-century German, one might, however anachronistically, detect a whiff of classical Freudian transference here. ...Um, witness the coins.) To the extent that we can rely on 13th-century Scandinavian sources, pilgrimages by 11th-century Vikings might come across as less untypical than one would suppose. The highly embroidered, late 13th-century Njal’s Saga provides an evocative account of a similar undertaking by an Icelander, Flosi Thordarson, as of c. 1016. Following one of the last murders in the attendant feud, Flosi is purported to have gone to Rome, “where he was accorded the great honour of receiving absolution at the hands of the Pope himself; he paid a large sum of money for it.” (P. 353; cf. 376 for the approximate, possibly fictional chronology.) [ATTACH=full]1259821[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1259822[/ATTACH] Kingdom of England. Cnut, 1016-1035. Penny of London, Helmet type, c. 1024 -1030. Obv. Cnut facing left, holding sceptre, helmeted, wearing a cloak, secured by a broach (circle with a pellet in the center). +CNVT RECX A: (/Cnut Rex Anglorum.) Rev. Elaborate cross, evoking Anglo-Saxon and Celtic depictions in other media. +PYNSTAN ON LUN (Wynstan, moneyer in London). (North 787; Style II (p. 169, w/ minor variants in the legend; p. 175 for the moneyer.) Cnut had wrested England from AEthelred II and his successor, Edmund Ironside. Thanks to several Danegelds, paid to the Vikings over preceding decades, AEthelred’s pennies circulated across the breadth of the late Viking world. (Jones 364-5; cf. [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danegeld#Anglo-Saxon_era[/URL].) The ‘Long Cross’ type corresponds to a Danegeld (1002) that weighed in at 24,000 very literal pounds (loc. cit.). [ATTACH=full]1259829[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1259830[/ATTACH] England. AEthelred II (r. 978 -1013 / 1014 -1016). ‘Long Cross’ penny, c. 997-1003. Obv. AEthelred facing left. (From 7 o’clock: ) AEÐELRAED RE+ ANGLO[-RVM]. Rev. Long voided cross. (From 9 o’clock: ) DR [/] ENG [/] M = O [/] LINC (Dreng (a Scandinavian name), moneyer in Lincoln --a conspicuous part of the ‘Danelaw,’ where Viking settlement had concentrated since the later 9th century.) North 774. The Vikings’ penchant for extortion on a royal scale was complemented by a no less pronounced aptitude for international trade. Thanks to this, the AEthelred type was imitated, not only by Viking mints from Dublin to Sweden, but in Germany, upriver from the Frisian coast. [ATTACH=full]1259834[/ATTACH] Conrad II, Emperor 1027 -1039. Similarly munched denar of Dortmund. Obv. Profile to left, with the same quasi-Celtic, rayonnant hair as AEthelred. (From three o’clock: ) +CONRADVS RE[X] (relentlessly retrograde). Rev. Short cross; pellets in angles. (From 11 o’clock --but no less retrograde: ) +CONRADVS RE[X]. Dannenberg 756, variant reverse legend. The variously retrograde and otherwise blundered legends of Conrad’s royal issues can be seen as symptomizing his own illiteracy. The contemporary chronicler Wipo implicitly likens him to Charlemagne, who, while similarly afflicted, pursued available, mainly clerical avenues toward the rebuilding of a literate culture. (Mommsen et al. Wipo, “The Deeds of Conrad II” p. 72; cf. Introduction, p. 19.) By contrast, Conrad’s son and successor, Heinrich III (‘King of the Romans [/Germany]’ from 1028; German emperor 1046-1056) was conspicuously literate. (Cf. Weinfurter 85-7.) But his coins demonstrate a no less pragmatic involvement in Scandinavian trade. [ATTACH=full]1259840[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1259841[/ATTACH]German empire. Heinrich III: denar of Speyer. Facing portrait; ship with three oars. Dannenberg 830. While this example demonstrates a discrete improvement on Conrad’s issues, it also features a a ship. Since it was minted as far up the Rhine as Speyer, it presumably represents a vessel with a suitably shallow draft for riverine navigation; possibly with influence from Viking ship design. (The viking longship, with its capacity to sail far upriver, was key to the success of Viking raids and invasions throughout Europe from 9th century CE onward. It was sort of the Viking equivalent of the Panzer tank.) The coin’s Estonian provenance, along with its distinctively Scandinavian peck marks, suggest a correspondingly active life. ...Since there might be room for one more pic on this post, here’s Cnut and his wife, Emma /Aelfgigu (OE: ‘Elves’ Gift), from a contemporaneous manuscript. They’re shown donating a gilt cross to the New Minster in Winchester. (Cf. Lawson (134-) 135.) Cnut’s patronage of native ecclesiastical institutions --with corresponding influence on them-- echoes the engagement of Conrad and Heinrich III in Germany, along with Lawson’s observations regarding similar dynamics between the contemporary Robert II Capet, and the clerical establishment in France (loc. cit.). ...Explicit religious imagery ensues; viewer discretion is advised. [ATTACH=full]1259843[/ATTACH] Primary sources. Adam of Bremen. History of the Archbishops of Hamburg-Bremen. Ed. trans. Francis J. Tschan and Timothy Reuter. New York: Columbia U P, 2002. Mommsen and Morison, eds. /transs. Imperial Lives And Letters of the Eleventh Century. New York: Columbia U P, 2000. Njal’s Saga. Ed. /trans. Magnus Magnusson and Herman Palsson. 1960. Baltimore: Penguin Classics, 1967. Sturluson, Snorri. Heimskringla: History of the Kings of Norway. Ed. /trans. Lee M. Hollander. 1964. Austin: U of Texas P, 1991. Secondary sources. Jones, Gwynn. A History of the Vikings. 1968. Oxford: Oxford U P, 1984. Lawson, M. K. Cnut: The Danes in England in the Early Eleventh Century. London: Longman, 1993. Rumble, Alexander R., ed. The Reign of Cnut. 1994. London: Leicester U P, 1999. Weinfurter, Stefan. The Salian Century: Main Currents in an Age of Transition. Ed. /trans. Barbara M. and Charles R. Bowlus. 1992. Philadelphia: U of Pennsylvania P, 1999. ...It would be great to see anything anyone cared to post, relating to the Viking Age, only most especially the later phases, c. later 10th -mid-11th centuries CE.[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Conrad and Cnut --or is that, Konrad and Knut?
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...