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confused by PFCA designation on Walking Halves
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<p>[QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 3021582, member: 112"]Your questions have had me wondering, namely why the questions to begin with. But your last post kind of explains a bit, I think you just lack some basic knowledge, a basic understanding, about US Proof coins, and specifically the cameo effect, or lack thereof. </p><p><br /></p><p>In regard to the '36-'42 Proof coins you first have to be aware of the numbers minted - they were few in number. With only enough coins even being minted to produce 21,000 sets in '42, and less in all preceding years on down to under 4,000 in '36. And then you need to understand how Proof coins are made and minted - which is what explains the cameo or lack of it. And then you need to understand how they were sold. All of this plays a part.</p><p><br /></p><p>You've been talking about the half dollars and the low number of cameo examples - NGC has a total of 10, and PCGS a total of 8 for the entire '36-'42 period. But have you looked at the other denominations from the same period ? The number of cameo examples for them is much, much higher. Cents for example number over 400 (combined) that have been designated cameo.</p><p><br /></p><p>But let's back up a bit and start with how they are made. The fields of brilliant Proof dies are highly polished to a mirror finish. But the devices, legends, numerals, etc are frosted. This frosted effect was produced back then by sandblasting or acid etching. Then when the coins are struck this frosted effect is present on the coins, but only until the frost is worn off the dies, and that doesn't take very long to happen. Nobody really knows for sure exactly how long, it may only last for a few hundred coins, it may last for a thousand, but it's suspected it doesn't last any longer than that. And the denomination being struck also plays a part in that the larger the coin the sooner the frost wears off. This is due to the amount of metal flow - more metal flows across the dies with larger coins, thus more wear in a shorter time period. So simply by that measure alone there are going to be much fewer cameo examples of halves than there are cents. </p><p><br /></p><p>Then you have to look at individual mintage for each denomination. Typically the larger the denomination the lower the mintage so there's a whole lot more cents minted than there are halves. This also contributes to the number of cameos being higher with the lower denomination coins.</p><p><br /></p><p>Then you have to look at how the Proofs were sold. Back then, very, very few people bought entire sets, they simply didn't do it. Instead they bought individual coins to fit their individual collections. Some only collected cents, so they would only buy cents. Others dimes, nickels, and so on and so on. This translated into very, very few sets even existing. And I can speak to that. </p><p><br /></p><p>I collected original Mint and Proof sets for about 40 years. When I stopped I was missing 2 dates in the Mint sets, and all of the Proofs from '36-'42. In 40 years of searching I had only ever even seen, or heard of 1 single set, a '41, from that entire period - 1 in 40 years ! That was in 2002 I believe. At the time I found it, it was so expensive I couldn't buy it. But does give you an idea of how just how rare original sets from this period were ? 40 years of searching and I found 1. And it wasn't just me either, I had dozens of dealers searching for me too at any given time.</p><p><br /></p><p>And, your comment of sets sitting out there in somebody's closet - they're not because the sets don't even exist. Oh there may be 1 or 2 or even 10 out there someplace, but even that is doubtful. </p><p><br /></p><p>So in '42 when there were just over 21,000 halves minted, probably only a few hundred of them even had the cameo. Over the years simple attrition wipes out a lot of them. They are lost or destroyed one way or another - floods, tornadoes, fires, etc etc. Even toning destroys a large number of them. That's why so few exist today. Hopefully this will have helped to answer your questions. But if you still have others feel free to ask.</p><p><br /></p><p>Now a couple of years, maybe it's been a few now I don't recall exactly, a member of this forum, a dealer, LostDutchman, ran across an original '42 set. It was only the 2nd set from this period I have seen in my entire life. And I've been involved with coins since 1960. But here's a few pics of it, I made sure to save those.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]751559[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]751560[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]751561[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]751562[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 3021582, member: 112"]Your questions have had me wondering, namely why the questions to begin with. But your last post kind of explains a bit, I think you just lack some basic knowledge, a basic understanding, about US Proof coins, and specifically the cameo effect, or lack thereof. In regard to the '36-'42 Proof coins you first have to be aware of the numbers minted - they were few in number. With only enough coins even being minted to produce 21,000 sets in '42, and less in all preceding years on down to under 4,000 in '36. And then you need to understand how Proof coins are made and minted - which is what explains the cameo or lack of it. And then you need to understand how they were sold. All of this plays a part. You've been talking about the half dollars and the low number of cameo examples - NGC has a total of 10, and PCGS a total of 8 for the entire '36-'42 period. But have you looked at the other denominations from the same period ? The number of cameo examples for them is much, much higher. Cents for example number over 400 (combined) that have been designated cameo. But let's back up a bit and start with how they are made. The fields of brilliant Proof dies are highly polished to a mirror finish. But the devices, legends, numerals, etc are frosted. This frosted effect was produced back then by sandblasting or acid etching. Then when the coins are struck this frosted effect is present on the coins, but only until the frost is worn off the dies, and that doesn't take very long to happen. Nobody really knows for sure exactly how long, it may only last for a few hundred coins, it may last for a thousand, but it's suspected it doesn't last any longer than that. And the denomination being struck also plays a part in that the larger the coin the sooner the frost wears off. This is due to the amount of metal flow - more metal flows across the dies with larger coins, thus more wear in a shorter time period. So simply by that measure alone there are going to be much fewer cameo examples of halves than there are cents. Then you have to look at individual mintage for each denomination. Typically the larger the denomination the lower the mintage so there's a whole lot more cents minted than there are halves. This also contributes to the number of cameos being higher with the lower denomination coins. Then you have to look at how the Proofs were sold. Back then, very, very few people bought entire sets, they simply didn't do it. Instead they bought individual coins to fit their individual collections. Some only collected cents, so they would only buy cents. Others dimes, nickels, and so on and so on. This translated into very, very few sets even existing. And I can speak to that. I collected original Mint and Proof sets for about 40 years. When I stopped I was missing 2 dates in the Mint sets, and all of the Proofs from '36-'42. In 40 years of searching I had only ever even seen, or heard of 1 single set, a '41, from that entire period - 1 in 40 years ! That was in 2002 I believe. At the time I found it, it was so expensive I couldn't buy it. But does give you an idea of how just how rare original sets from this period were ? 40 years of searching and I found 1. And it wasn't just me either, I had dozens of dealers searching for me too at any given time. And, your comment of sets sitting out there in somebody's closet - they're not because the sets don't even exist. Oh there may be 1 or 2 or even 10 out there someplace, but even that is doubtful. So in '42 when there were just over 21,000 halves minted, probably only a few hundred of them even had the cameo. Over the years simple attrition wipes out a lot of them. They are lost or destroyed one way or another - floods, tornadoes, fires, etc etc. Even toning destroys a large number of them. That's why so few exist today. Hopefully this will have helped to answer your questions. But if you still have others feel free to ask. Now a couple of years, maybe it's been a few now I don't recall exactly, a member of this forum, a dealer, LostDutchman, ran across an original '42 set. It was only the 2nd set from this period I have seen in my entire life. And I've been involved with coins since 1960. But here's a few pics of it, I made sure to save those. [ATTACH=full]751559[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]751560[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]751561[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]751562[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
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confused by PFCA designation on Walking Halves
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