Condition isn't Everything

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by lackluster, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. lackluster

    lackluster Junior Member

    I was shocked while on ebay to see some of the modern commemorative dollars, 84 olympics and the 89 congress in ms70 bid up to well over $1,000. I noticed that those same coins slabbed in ms69 going for $30-$35. I understand the concept with the population reports and all, but this is going to end so badly for someone.

    I was curious if dealers and serious collectors think that this is a good thing in general. I know these people are buying of their own free will but it just doesn't seem like it will help the hobby in the long run. Doesn't some of the fault come with the marketing of the perception of rarity? If I were a dealer I personally would have a hard time selling one of these high priced moderns to a customer.

    I recently bought a slabbed Bust 50 designated improperly cleaned for $50. Call me crazy but i would rather have 20 of these than an MS slabbed modern commemorative for $1,000.


    Lack
     
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  3. Do I think it's nuts? Absolutely! But there will always be number buyers.
     
  4. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    This is why venues like Coin Vault continue to thrive, and it is also why I call these buyers bidiots.

    Chris
     
  5. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    Everything is based on supply and demand, sometimes condition rarities are rare. I don't get it either. Paying huge money for a modern condition rarity seems foolish, but that is just my opinion.
     
  6. JAS0N888

    JAS0N888 Member

    i`m more than happy to take the MS69`s they can keep the MS70 markups:yes:
     
  7. JeromeLS

    JeromeLS Coin Fanatic

    Warning, unpopular opinion coming up: the average MS-70 coin is no better to the naked eye than the average MS-69. Coins are graded at TPGs by human beings, no coins produced for circulation have no imperfections, and even under a loup the difference between a MS-69 and a MS-70 coin is absolutely trivial. If you buy a modern coin in MS-70 you're paying for the slab, not the coin.
     
  8. Taxidermist

    Taxidermist Collector of US/IL/RU/DE

    Isn't it true for every slab, not just modern MS-70s?
     
  9. rodeoclown

    rodeoclown Dodging Bulls

    You have two types of collectors, some collect coins, others collect the plastic slabs that some coins come in. ;)
     
  10. rodeoclown

    rodeoclown Dodging Bulls

    In my opinion, yes.
     
  11. jloring

    jloring Senior Citizen

    I agree with all of the above. I never collected "grade".... I collect coins. Condition means little to me; I would much rather have a nice VG-FN example than "slabbed perfection". Never bought a slabbed coin and never will.
     
  12. RaceBannon

    RaceBannon Member

    I like to think of MS 70 graded coins as the pyramid scheme of numismatics.

    You'll be alright if you can find someone else to pay these astronomical prices to buy your MS70 coin you just paid a fortune for. The problem is, much as in a pyramid scheme, you're bound to run out of buyers sooner or later. And someone will be left holding the bag.
     
  13. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    A lot of it is about registry sets and getting to be number 1. Some just have to have those 70's.
     
  14. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Very true, and often if you were to take that MS-70 coin, crack it out and resubmit it in most cases it probably will NOT come back as a 70 again. So it was a $30 coin, they looked at it and said it was a $1000 coin, then they looked at it again and suddenly it is a $30 coin again. Exact same coin, so $970 of that $1000 value was the plastic not the coin. I collect coins.
     
  15. JeromeLS

    JeromeLS Coin Fanatic

    You're less likely to be buying fakes with slabs. Third party authentication is a good idea. Third party grading - in my opinion, not so much.
     
  16. lackluster

    lackluster Junior Member

    That statement says it all! I have heard more than few dealers say when the moderns they submitted come back they resubmit the 69 with the next batch and almost always some of those come back as 70. Sad state of affairs to me just to make a profit. It is a bit of a crap shoot on the submitters part, but the grading services are really the ones benefitting the most. I assume they PCGS and NGC knows this practice and should realize that this if nothing else proves the inconsistency of their product.
     
  17. lackluster

    lackluster Junior Member

    Another point or question on the TPG's. If I were to choose a scarce, by pop report modern, such as the 84s olympic $1 and submit 100 coins that looked perfect to me. Would the graders be likely to grade them lower in a large lot knowing the scarci?
    Would they actually grade 50% of them as ms70 if that is what they deserved or would they be more likely to be drastically lower percentage? I guess no one really knows this answer but i justwanted opinions.

    Lack
     
  18. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    To each his own.

    And yes, I'd prefer the Bustie.
     
  19. redwin117

    redwin117 Junior Member

    ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! an HIGHWAY ROBBERY of ALL TIMES IN NUMISMATICS Specially on a MODERN COINAGE LIKE ASE etc....JUST BUY A COIN and Do not
    Let it ANYONE GRADE IT! We all Love the coins Not the PLASTIC by TPG....
     
  20. longnine009

    longnine009 Darwin has to eat too. Supporter

    At a coin show in 2025 in front of the awe struck faces
    of several YN's:

    "Back in the day we only had eleven MS grades and
    it took an entire tail to wag a dog instead a flea in the
    tail wagging the dog."
     
  21. willhurst01

    willhurst01 Active Member

    wasnt there a time when condition really didnt matter though?
     
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