Common counterfeit theme...?

I've decided to do post this thread in a different way to attempt to expose how counterfeiters these days try to peddle their wares. In this topic, I'll only focus on world coins. Unfortunately these sellers seem to be very successful judging by their feedback.

In the past it used to be easy to tell what replicas / forgeries / counterfeits are. Historically it has been "crude details", "wrong metal", "weight under / over weight", "seller in China". Not today.

Counterfeiters have been busy at work learning where they made mistakes and made huge improvements since then. In fact, it's even got major TPGs very busy. Some interesting news can be read here - https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/5378/Counterfeit-Detection-2015-Chinese-New-Year-Silver-3-Yuan/

So what are counterfeits doing to sell their wares these days? They have improved and diversified their products. In my opinion, no coins these days are safe from being counterfeited. I do own a 1 yuan counterfeited yuan which is worth a mere face value of just 12 US cents.

Now I'm listing a group of sellers which I found similar themes. Bear in mind that this is a small group of sellers I've seen. I would like to point out their similarities.

aleale_srvhpjni http://www.ebay.com/sch/aleale_srvhpjni/m.html?LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

craius1 http://www.ebay.com/sch/craius1/m.html?LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

getmisscakes http://www.ebay.com/sch/getmisscakes/m.html?LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

happycoins2010 http://www.ebay.com/sch/happycoins2010/m.html?LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

jakscottj-0 http://www.ebay.com/sch/jakscottj-0/m.html?LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

kriknott0 http://www.ebay.com/sch/kriknott0/m.html?LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

laparkesmit0 http://www.ebay.com/sch/laparkesmit0/m.html?LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

sandrabryanea9 http://www.ebay.com/sch/sandrabryanea9/m.html?LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

I make no apologies for the listed sellers as they have sold counterfeits. Notice a similar trend? Many of these are highly collectable coins and they have been sold for a fraction of what they should be worth. The biggest red flag is how diversified they are and often in "high grade" condition. These are often from high popular countries such as China, Japan, Korea, France, Germany, Italy, Swiss, US etc. Some are pretty obscure coinage as well. Let's be realistic - if you see such hoard appearing all at once in the last few months, something does not add up does it? On top of this, the luster of such counterfeits seem to be similar across different sellers.

Now let's put it from a counterfeiter's prospective. I'm certain that it would be more profitable to create a batch of counterfeits at once rather than making one off. So if a counterfeiter makes 50 different types of coins, at least 50 copies each, spread it across 50 different sellers with different combination... this is what we are seeing now. No longer has it been a seller that specializes in selling a specific counterfeit. They have learned and buyers are now facing it.

So what does it mean for collectors? We must continue to learn about the hobby and not get bitten into this counterfeit bug. I am certain there must be an illegal business ring behind the scene and we should not give them a single cent of our hard earned money. These people will continue to improve their wares with the help of uninformed buyers. Not only that - this also sends a wrong message to both genuine buyers and sellers. From a honest seller's point of view, it would hurt to have buyers claiming that their products are overpriced should they reference prices off counterfeits.

For now - if you see a seller being too diversified with unreal grades, run. I've seen a seller with more than 1000 feedback and still manage to get away with selling counterfeits. Best advice is to continue to learn more about the hobby and be an expert in it.

 

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If you are so sure that they are selling counterfeit coins, then it is your responsibility to report them.

Chris

 

But what good does it do? I found one seller who was listing fake Mexican silver coins. They were all 5 or 10 pesos from the 1950s and 60s, coins normally worth $10-$15. They were obviously fake, and the seller had numerous auctions ending every few hours with the same three or four coins over and over. I reported several of them, but you can still easily find this same guy selling the same coins, and people keep buying them.

 

A couple of questions:

*How on earth did one of those guys sell a common modern ASE for $99? Can't seem to give them away for $20 here...

*I love that another one of them (NO, I stand corrected, two of them) are double threats - also selling women's underwea (as spelled in the listing) for .99. With FREE shipping. That...that is some cheap underwea, whatever underwea is.

 

If it doesn't do any good, then why are you complaining?

Chris

 

That's how they gather fake positive feedback to seem more reputable when selling their equally fake coins.

 

A Canadian collector was able to make inroads and stop individual sellers by going through Paypal, which in turn stopped it through Ebay. The RCMP got involved, because of the law, but it was the pressure through Paypal to Ebay that closed them down. Once you get Paypal on the illegal side of the transaction, it seems that things happen very quickly. This one individual make hundreds of calls a month to Ebay and Paypal that stop sellers.

 

If reporting them solves everything, I will endeavor to do so.

The whole idea of this thread is to educate other buyers. Again the reason why such sellers exist is because there is a market for them to make money.

 

What do you mean why am I complaining? I complained to eBay in an effort to get the listings removed to help other people, but eBay didn't remove the listings or ban the seller, so I stopped trying.

 

I'm grateful to fellow members like gxseries and Hiddendragon for taking it upon themselves to try and fight the counterfeiters who spoil it for honest coin dealers and rob innocent unsuspecting collectors. I cannot see the reason for the rather harsh comments aimed at them.

Their actions are well-intentioned and if all of us keeping chipping away at the counterfeiters, our combined actions might have a positive effect and save some unsuspecting novice collector from losing a ton of money.

A while back I saw a listing where the seller had listed a 1934 Wreath Crown for $$$ and stated .925 sterling silver in his listing. The coin was only ever struck in .500 purity. I reported it to eBay and have not seen the listing since then.

 

Please don't give up. Every little bit helps.

 

Geez o' flip! Another thin-skinner. That wasn't harsh at all. The OP didn't say that he had done anything to rectify the problem.

Chris

 

If your attitude has offended 3 out of the handful of participants in this thread then I suppose the 3 are wrong and you are right. "If it doesn't do any good then why are you complaining". I don't think anyone thought he was complaining. He was voicing his frustration that counterfeiters are getting away with it.

And no not thin-skinned but perhaps more diplomatic and polite in putting our point across!!!

 

It seems that the only person offended is you.

@gxseries didn't say he was offended by my remark. He clarified his position. That is true.

@Hiddendragon didn't say that he was offended by my question. Yes, he defended his position, and I can appreciate that.

I made one comment and asked one question. Apparently, it is you who has the problem.

Chris

 

I don't think he is complaining. I see it as valuable information. But that is only my take on it.

 

Glad to see you stumble through life totally oblivious to your problems and shortcomings.

 

You just hate admitting that you complicated the situation, don't you!

Chris

 

Please read all your comments and then comment on mine....please.

 

Mike Marshal, as I mentioned before, put a halt to Canadian coinage counterfeiters listing stuff. He was then contacted by the US House of Representatives (Congress) to integrate his "how I do it" into the Hobby Law last year. But it still takes 2-3 individual watchdogs and complainers to call attention to the problem vendors so they can be stopped for US coins.

 

What, and waste your precious time? I stand behind everything I said, including Post #17.

Chris