Featured Coins of the Newly Independent Latin American Republics - Chile's Volcano Coinage.

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Eduard, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. Biurs92

    Biurs92 Member

    Wow really nice Republican silver coins from South-America!!
     
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  3. coin_nut

    coin_nut Supporter! Supporter

    I want some of those volcanoes too! Here is my one old Peru coin. 1836 PE 4 r obv.JPG 1836 PE 4 r rev.JPG
     
  4. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter** Supporter

    Thank you for posting your Latin American early coins Gallienus and coin_nut:) They are beautiful.

    Thank you Gallienus for your write-up which I found quite informative, specially with regard to the Brazilian overstrikes.
    Apparently, many Chilean coins and other colonial issues, but also republican Volcano Pesos were overstruck in Brazil. This may account partly for the extreme rarity of many of the dates, besides the 1817 FJ. The overstriking was apparently done with high striking force as details of the original coins is only faintly visible on most of the examples that I have seen.
     
  5. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter** Supporter

    An interesting and scarce little 1/4 real coin from the early years of the Chilean Republic. Struck only between 1832-1834.

    These 'cuartillos' are tiny, smaller than a U.S 3-cent silver.
    Their small size probably accounts for their scarcity today.
    This example is uncirculated.

    Chile 1-4 Real 1833 REV - 1.jpg Chile 1-4 Real 1833 - 1.jpg
     
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  6. Gallienus

    Gallienus Well-Known Member

    Actually my 1st Latin American coin was also a 1836 Peruvian Athena Standing, but an 8 Reales in VF bought at a coin shop. I was intrigued by the design and it was my surrogate since I was a collector of US coins and always wanted a nice Standing Liberty Quarter but never encountered one.
     
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  7. Gallienus

    Gallienus Well-Known Member

    Hi Eduard,
    Well it's variable. I understand that high quality overstrikes, such as the British 1804 5 shilling Bank Tokens were all overstruck. However the British took the trouble to heat the silver coins in a furnace to anneal the silver and make it softer. Thus 1804 British crowns showing clear undercoins are rare.

    In contrast the Brazilian 960 reis apparently did not take such care with the planchlets and as a result the undercoins are often highly visable. These are highly sought after by Brazilian numismatists who go nuts over these things -- which may account for you're not having seen many.

    Are you familiar with the following book which details the Overstrikes?
    [​IMG]
    The book is written in duel Portuguese & English. See below on Argentine Sunface Overstrikes.

    [​IMG]

    Two years ago, I was in the coin store of a prominent Brazilian dealer and he showed me a 960 reis overstrike on an Argentine Sunface 8R. This sunface was of a new variety. Apparently there are no surviving non-overstruck speciemens of this sunface 8R. It is only known overstruck & by this one specimen.
     
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  8. jgenn

    jgenn World Crown Collector

    Since my numismatic focus is on 8 reales of the Spanish Empire, I have also collected some of the early types of 8 reales from the newly independent republics. My last one to feature in this thread is an early and scarce 8 reales type from the República de Colombia that existed from 1819-1831. It was formed from Spanish Viceroyalty of New Granada that included the territories of present-day Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador, Panama, northern Peru, western Guyana and northwest Brazil. Today it is often referred to as Gran Colombia to differentiate from the official name of the modern nation of Colombia.

    There were several issues from 1819 to 1821 using the same design motif; native bust in feather headdress on obverse and pomegranate (the symbol of the Spanish province of Granada) on reverse. They show the value of 8 reales, however these were significantly debased from the Spanish standard, weighing 23 grams and only 66.6% silver.

    My example is pretty well worn and is the type with the Republica de Colombia and Cundinamarca legends but without mintmark, although it was most likely issued from the principal mint in Cundinamarca Department, Santa Fe de Bogotá. Later issues would include the Ba mint mark.

    1820_CO_JF_8R.jpg
     
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  9. Gallienus

    Gallienus Well-Known Member

    About 8 months ago I tried to buy one of these at auction but this one guy just wouldn't let it go. I dropped out at this ridiculous price: about 2x or 3x the auctioneer's estimate.

    My understanding is that these were issued up until almost the 1830's but with a frozen date of 1821. I'd guess the 1820 date was also issued for many years as it doesn't appear to be much rarer than the 1821. Also I've been told that the silver purity is variable and declines from .666 or .600 to .300.

    Probably for this reason, I've never seen one understruck on a Brazilian 960 reis. My Overstrikes of the 960 Reis reference does mention Colombian 8R understruck but doesn't differentiate on what variety was overstruck I believe.
     
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  10. jgenn

    jgenn World Crown Collector

    Thanks @Gallienus for the additional information especially regarding later issues bearing earlier dates.
     
  11. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Thanks all of you above for the information on these wonderful looking coins. Below is not a coin of Chile. But, I believe fits the theme of this thread. Volcanoes, Sun, and newly independent Republic.
    Nicaragua declared it's independence from Spain on September 15 1821, and united with the Mexican Empire. In 1823 they united with the Central American Republic, until 1838 when they declared themselves independent. 1878 was the first year that a single denomination coin was produced, an UN Centavo.

    It seems that it took many years to build their own Monetary system, By 1887 the largest Nicaraguan coin in circulation was a 20 Centavo.

    I really enjoy these issues with the Volcanoes and the Sun. This one has a little Phrygian cap. The coins produced by these Latin countries were phenomenal in my opinion, and very hard to find in descent condition.
    IMG_0007.JPG IMG_0008.JPG
     
  12. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter** Supporter

    Your coin absolutely fits the theme of this thread, Pickin and Grinin, and thank you for posting it:).
    I am still missing a coin from Nicaragua in my collection. I like the design and motif on your coin.
     
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  13. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Since the start of this thread these early republics have been on my radar, Thank You
     
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  14. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
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  15. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter** Supporter

    More volcanoes and sun! Thank you for posting those, Paddy:)
     
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  16. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter** Supporter

    The first gold issues of the newly independent Chilean Republic followed very soon after independence in the form of the 8 Escudos piece.
    The year 1818 was thus the first year of issue. The coin carried similar symbols as seen on the countries first silver coinage, the 1817 peso, namely the sun and mountains obverse, with the reverse showing the column of liberty flanked by the flags of the new republic.
    Flanking the column of liberty one reads the rather forceful legend "For La Razon o La Fuerza" - by reason or by force.
    This is the example in my collection. Ex Superior Galleries.

    Chile 8 Escudos 1818 FD - OBV - 1.jpg Chile 8 Escudos 1818 FD - REV - 1.jpg
     
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  17. Gallienus

    Gallienus Well-Known Member

    A beautiful coin in my opinion. I tried to buy the unc 1818 specimen out of Eliasberg in 2005 but Don Canaparo outbid me on the floor to win the coin for $3K. There was also a major variety change, I think in the 1820's, when they transitioned from this type to one having fewer, sharp & well defined mountains underneath the 2 volcanoes obverse.
     
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  18. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter** Supporter

    Thank you, Gallienus.
    I can also think of many 'missed opportunities' going back to the late 80's.
    If only.........ah well.

    Here is a little 1 Real dated 1824 from the Central American Republic.
    That is one coin design I never tire of looking at.

    (Please see also post #26 by @jgenn for more background on the sort-lived Republica del Centro de America).

    Central American Republic 1 real 1829 OBV1 n - 1.jpg Central American Republic 1 real 1824 REV1 n - 1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
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  19. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

  20. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    I love the 36 awesome coin in hand
     
  21. Gallienus

    Gallienus Well-Known Member

    I just realized that I forgot Ecuador, I've had many attempted run-ins with Ecuadorian coins; almost all of which I lost. Here's one I got. You'll have to trust me (& the slab) that the coin in person is a lot nicer than my poor photo.

    This is a well struck Ecuadorian 5 Francs of 1858, PCGS or NGC-65. I think it's the finest known specimen. For some strange reason Krause began calling this a "Francos", named after the slang of the franc term. However the coin was struck on the French Franc standard (denominated 5 F) and this was intended to help it's international acceptance. You don't see slabs of Elizabethian "1 bob" {shillings} or a British gold quid {pound} for example.

    I've a new photo setup so eventually I'll re-photo the coin more clearly.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
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