Featured Coins of the Newly Independent Latin American Republics - Chile's Volcano Coinage.

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Eduard, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    The only Peruvian coin I own is a bit more modern than what you are showing. Those volcanoes are really cool!

    I think it's interesting how, even with all the design changes, the sun motif still works it's way into most of these coins. Does this Smiling Sun have any special significance to these countries? (the way the Eagle does on US Coinage, for example?)

    JPW663 obverse.jpg JPW663 reverse.jpg
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  3. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter** Supporter

    [QUOTE="physics-fan3.14, post: 2963854, member: 19165"

    I think it's interesting how, even with all the design changes, the sun motif still works it's way into most of these coins. Does this Smiling Sun have any special significance to these countries? (the way the Eagle does on US Coinage, for example?) [/QUOTE]

    That is a very pretty 1/2 Dinero!

    As you mention, the use of mountain and rising sun motifs is a recurring theme, not only in Peruvian, Chilean and Argentinian coinage, but also in the early coins of other Latin American nations. The beautiful coinage of the Central American Republic and Ecuador being further examples.
    In fact, one of the primary currency units of Peru is called SOL (literally: the SUN).

  4. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter** Supporter

    Here is another coin bearing the sun-and-mountain design. This one is a 2 reales from the short-lived Central American Republic. Struck at Tegucigalpa.
    Not a good picture but the design is all clear.

    Central American Republic 2 reles 1831.jpg Central American Republic 2 Reales 1831.jpg
  5. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    The sun and mountain coins of the CAR sometimes come in prooflike condition. I keep trying to get one, but they go for a pretty decent sum. I really like the design of them.
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  6. Biurs92

    Biurs92 Member

    Really Nice coins you all have, the sun is in almost every latin american republic coins!
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
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  7. jgenn

    jgenn World Crown Collector

    Here are two 8 reales from the earliest years of the República Federal de Centroamérica, formerly the Spanish Captaincy General of Guatemala that included modern day Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Los Altos (which would become the Mexican State of Chiapas). Commonly referred to as the Central American Republic, it was formed in 1821, began to disintegrate in 1836 and was no longer a union by 1838 although coins of this design continued to be issued from Nueva Guatemala into the 1840's. In my opinion, the obverse design embodies the idea of the light of freedom dawning on a newly liberated land. The reverse depicts the Kapok tree (Ceiba pentandra) with the legend "LIBRE CRESCA (CRESZCA) FECUNDO" -- Grow Free and Fertile.

    1824_NG_M_8Ra.jpg 1825_NG_M_8Rb.jpg
  8. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter** Supporter

    Thank you, jgenn, for posting those two beautiful 8 Reales of the Republica del Centro de America. A most beautiful type of this short-lived republic, (much like Gran Colombia).
    I would love to add one of the 8 reales to my collection.
  9. Maxfli

    Maxfli Well-Known Member

    As a geographic category, Latin American coinage is my favorite. Just wish I could afford more of them.
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  10. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter** Supporter

    This is a Reales piece dated 1855 from the small mint at Pasco in Peru.
    The Pasco mint was one of a few branch mints which operatd briefly besides the main facility at Lima. Pasco only operated from 1836 to 1855.

    This example is from the Lissner Collection auctioned by CNG in 2014. The Lissner Collection included a large number of very scarce Latin American coins, many in very high grades.

    Pasco 4 Reales 1855 - My example- Ex Lissner Collection Sale 2014.jpg
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  11. asheland

    asheland The Silver Lion

    Great thread!
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  12. Biurs92

    Biurs92 Member

    Such an Amazing coin!!
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  13. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    The Lissner collection was amazing. Most of the coins sold 5X or more estimate. I had bids on many but got out gunned on all.It was speculated that some of the rich Mexican drug cartel head honchos got many for their collections. Pablo Escobar was into collecting classic automobiles. When you make 160 Million US a day....lots of $ for coins/ cars/art:)
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  14. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter** Supporter

    You are absolutely right, my friend. The Lissner Collection contained so many scarce and historical coins. However, the special thing (for me) was in general the amazing condition of those coins.
    Like you, I stretched, and went far beyond my normal (comfort) level for some Peruvian and Chilean reals. I still was unsuccessful. The Pasco 4 reales above was my only purchase.
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  15. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    Problem was that in US, people go gaga over slabbed high graded coins. There was a MS-66 Neuva Granada AV 8 Escudos that sold for 16KUS. I picked up a "virtually as struck" same coin from St. James auction for 2400 UK pounds. I had it slabbed/ guess what it was MS-66. I paid 3500US for coin that sold in Lissner for 16K;);) Remember in Europe "mintstate/stempelglanz/SC/FDC"=MS-66/67/68. In the end, with every auction.....high grade coins always go way over estimates.
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  16. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I can understand the hype at auction for a truly spectacular collection. However, I often wonder if that premium is sustainable. Have these come back down in price, or do they retain that very large premium?
  17. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    I think in the long run yes, since high grade/ desirable coins will keep escalating in price at @ 15-25percent per annum. One of the Lissner coins ended up in Frank Sedgewick Treasure auction, it did not sell, so I bought it for unsold price $800US +fee. It sold for twice that in Lissner Auction. Had that same coin been in a Triton event....probably would have sold way higher. Same, Larry Adams coll. had a EF AV Stater from Kolchis....sold for 5600US CNG event/ I got same coin in "Solidus" auction/ better quality MS for 1600 euros.:):) john photos 1 014 (Medium).jpg
  18. Biurs92

    Biurs92 Member

    Great Deal you Got!
  19. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter** Supporter

    I am still hoping that some of the chilean coins I bid on to my maximum comfort level (and then some!) at the Lissner Sale will some day reappear in the market. However, this is not very likely to happen I think.
    Incredible prices, yes, but also incredible coins.
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  20. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter** Supporter

    The Andes Mountain Range runs along the entire length of Chile- a long chain of high, majestic peaks. This is the natural habitat of the Condor. The condor is also a recurring theme in Chilean coinage.
    One example is the 'Condor-breaking-chains' type - The condor symbolically breaking the chains of centuries of colonial servitude.

    Chile 2-reales 1850 - Condor breaking chains:

    Chile 2 reales 1850 OBV - 1.jpg Chile 2 reales 1850 REV - 1.jpg
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  21. Gallienus

    Gallienus Well-Known Member

    I'll try to post some types. These include the Argentine "Sunfaces" which I'm very found of. When I went to Argentina 10+ years ago I stopped into a coin shop in "the old coin section of Buenos Aires. The dealer had 3 sunfaces: one was a superb 1815 but also very expensive, being $700. The other two cheaper ones I bought and sold the worst of these (also an 1815) to a friend. The nicer one I still have, cost me $400. Here's a poor photo of it, although I can say that there are no hairlines, damage, or signs of cleaning.

    Another one (1815 8S/R, below) I bought years later from a US auction. This is the R over S variety where they changed the denomination from Soles to Reales. Recently I got the 1837/6 circulated sunface from Stacks 2018 NYICS as I wanted the last year of issue and decided not to wait for an MS specimen of that date.

    In keeping with Chile, while at the NYICS, some years ago, I purchased this common 1817 assayer F.J. Peso [below] from a well known dealer for $750. Again sorry for my poor pix.

    I'll skip to Peru where the coins used to be very inexpensive. Aside from the Provisional issues of 1822 & 23 which I don't own, their standard coin is the "Athena Standing". Here's an early example I bought at the same show I got the above Chilean Peso. This one was more expensive than the typical $100 for mint state specimens of the 1830's that one used to see.

    From the Separatist region of South Peru, struck during the War of the Confederation. According to Wiki, this had the Peru-Bolivian confederation on one side and Chile, Peruvian dissidents and Argentina, on the other. This one from a local auction.

    Finally to hold up the Bolivian side, this is Independent Bolivia's 1st year of issue crown: 1827. It was made while The Liberator was still alive (S. Bolivar dies in 1830) and is from the collection of Alex Siegle. Alex introduced me to collecting these types and was my friend for many years. It may be the finest known specimen of this date.

    As you can tell I love these 1st types of Latin America. Compared to the Colonial issues they were very cheap, given the rarity. These were symbols of national pride immediately after independence of the countries. I believe they did not to circulate greatly in the countries of origin but were mainly used for export payments which caused many to survive today as the receiving countries, like England, had a numismatic tradition.

    However, many were also obliterated as Brazil used them as blanks on which to overstrike their 960 reis pieces. I think the Portuguese crown, which moved to Brazil, bought them at 800 reis and struck them at 960, thus financing their huge court in Rio de Janero. During the 1960's I think huge amounts of these available at 80 cents apiece, like lots of 50,000 coins, and were bought up and melted. Today Brazil has a very active numismatic community with regional auctions in the country 4x a year. I'm also a member of their numismatic society.

    The minor silver of these countries (1/2 reales to 4 reales) have a more interesting story to tell. They did circulate in the countries of origin and were often subject to debasement: with the silver content falling to 10% or less. This episode or currency type was called "moneda feble" or weak currency and lasted from 1830 until the early 1850's.

    There were also 1/4 reales struck (cuartos?), but I am unsure if these were part of the moneda feble episode or were struck as part of the regular demoninations.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
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