Coins, a sound way to invest for retirement.

I think the best part about his threads is how people trash all over it and then he comes back and makes one pitiful response to one of the criticisms, ignoring all of the other ones that even he can't argue with. E.G. this thread, his second post.

 

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Is anything that passes for investing really investing?
The S&P and Dow used to be a reflection of a robust
economy. Now it's a reflection of how much make up
the fed putty knifes into the EL Cid corpse before
strapping him into the horse and sending him on
another QE charge. As long as the make up
doesn't break off his face wallstreet believes it.

 

If you treat a stock market index as a slot machine, maybe it is like it in your mind then. I tend to look at a company I like, evaluate their prospects, and decide myself how much I would want to pay for 1/30,000,000 millionth ownership of the firm. That is how you evaluate stocks, based upon how much you believe that fraction of ownership is worth over time.

Treat a market like a giant roulette wheel, you might get similar returns.

 

I'm glad stock investors have no greater expectations
for their companies than to grow at GDP. Otherwise
they'd be playing roulette.

 

Who said that? My point was that I look at stocks as is I am an owner. I do not view them as passive holdings I hope to strike it rich with, like putting my money down on 23 Red. I look at their structure, their brands, core competencies, prospects, etc. I have to like the company, their products, and the price before I wish to own a stock.

 

I for one enjoy Detecto's posts. Forums depend on people posting. He does participate and some of the expected bashing lightens my day!
Thanks!

 

I'm pretty sure I said it. Again, and also IMO,
there is no reason for stock prices to advance
more than GDP unless people are speculating
on such thing as what you sited. Speculating
is based in the future--the wheel is spinning.
Your methods are the same common sense
methods Buffett uses. If everyone did it that way
then why is the fed propping up EL Cid?

 

I mostly agree with this. The stock market is gambling in the same vein as betting on horses. Is it possible for an individual speculator to gain a slight edge by choosing an underrated target or avoiding a poor choice? Sure, but for every speculator that thinks he has done so there are 999 that haven't, or else the system would be broken. If even a tiny proportion of investors could do so with any kind of accuracy, there would actually be stock tips and racing touts you would kill to get your hands on. As opposed to, well, nothing of the kind.

 

Don't be crazy long nine, the FED only has to pump 85 billion into the economy each month to keeps things running smoothly, that's only 1.02 trillion a year.Sounds sustainable, the economy is in recovery!

 

It is definitely possible to make money in coins, but it is much more likely that you'll lose money unless you have an "edge" (mostly superior knowledge and first-shot access to great, fresh coins). Personally, I don't like stocks - I keep only my 401k in the stock market. My primary goal is enjoyment from my collection, but it is nice to make some money as well, although it comes at a cost of needing to follow/attend auctions, research constantly, build a large library, and take risks. I've seen many people fail (even after I've tried to steer them in the right direction) because of their motivation being to just make a quick buck.

To steal a well-known quote, there is no Santa Claus in numismatics.

 

It used to be possible to ascertain which were good companies and likely to do well and which were poor companies. Now days it's all dependent on governmental actions whether a company will do well or not. Nothing today can be valued so it's impossible to know a good investment from a poor one.

Even a bank account is speculative when interest rates are at zero percent to savers and 10% to borrowers and bankers will appropriate accounts to cover their gambling losses.

 

Pay no attention to those flies hovering around EL Cid.

 

Actually not "widely off the mark", but something that we all have thought in those wee small hours of the morning when you can't get to sleep. Now, I gotta admit that you ancient guys are not expecting to buy a $5000 coin for $3, but how many people bought recent commemorative issues, proof sets, silver pucks, etc with the thought that they were going up in value. Tim just takes this self dellusion up a rung. Do wish he would comment after he stirred the pot.

 

It's not just government actions-- Wall Street demands constant growth of profits-- grow, grow, grow. If the company's profits don't grow, or don't meet their forecast, then the stock can get hammered. So companies are cutting all sorts of corners to meet expectations, including cutting employees and employee hours, shifting production overseas, and raising prices, among other things. In the long run, it is an unsustainable model.

 

Recently I posted something about a Turkish 1 kurus coin I have that I read somewhere that was worth 0.0000667 cents when it was legal tender. Now it is not even legal tender in Turkey anymore, so it's "real" value is nothing. Now, find one for nothing. I have seen them on fee-bay for several dollars, however if you knew someone who had them, you could probably buy them in bulk for very little.

Recent conversation with my wife "Wow, check this out, it is the most worthless coin of modern times, worth only 0.0000667 cents" Wife "Why in the world would you want one of them."

 

The Dow has gone from 875 in 1982 to 15,000
last week. The fed has been rewarding stupidity
and mal-investment since 2008 raising the probably
that we'll get more of the same.

I don't believe coin investing is a slam dunk.
Far from it. But I also don't believe it is any worse
than the alternatives.

 

I've got a whole sandwich bag filled with worthless Turkish kurus coins that I'll gladly sell for $1 each + postage :yes:

 

My Father bought a bunch of Nepalese Mint sets in the late '60s and early '70s. I found them after he passed and checked them out. The coins looked pretty cool and they were in their original Mint packaging. Turns out they're worth less than dirt. I'm guessing it was some sort of scam going on around that time. Still, the sentimental value is priceless.

I also found some Canadian mining stock certificates from the early '60s with a note from my Father's broker informing him that the company declared bankruptcy. It's funny, when you're young you think your folks are infallible...but as you get older, you discover they're human just like the rest of us.

 

I agree that coins are generally not good investments, and that other investments have been better in the past (although that does not guarantee future performance, and can sometimes inhibit it-I'm thinking especially of precious metals). I also think that coins will be very bad investments in the future for demographic reasons, and so I totally disagree with Detecto.

That said, yours is one of the stupidest, most arrogant posts I've seen here, and that's really saying something. He was just sharing his opinion. He wasn't calling you an idiot for not agreeing with him. But apparently anyone under the age of... what, 30? 35? 50? isn't allowed to have an opinion. Other people gave good reasons why Detecto was wrong, but apparently the best you could think of was "duh, me older than u, me smart". Yeah, I'm definitely gonna listen to the idiot that thinks everyone younger than him is too stupid to be allowed to share an opinion. I'm 21 as well, and if you don't want to hear my opinions about investing, that's too damn bad. Pro tip- If you don't want to read anything written by anyone under (whatever you think the magical age of wisdom is), then get edited off the internet.

 

Wow, only one 30,000,000,000,000th of it! That must be a huge company!