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Message:: [QUOTE="ErolGarip, post: 2841438, member: 88736"]First of all, mentioning +2000 years old coins here in this thread as being done by "sallent" is NOT off-topic here. Mentioning 1776 continental coin as done by "thomas mozzillo" here is not off-topic either. Mentioning "Sovereign" or 9000 years old, 7000BC, stone coin is not off topic either. Mentioning sea cowry shells used as money is not off-topic either. Etc. Each of them tells some stories about  their days in the past. For ex, that 1776 continental coin on which "We are One" was depicted on the coin tells about uniting people there of those days rather than the money itself of those days. The value of that coin is a kind of political value which can be seen in many coins in the past and today with political figures of the days. This "I am power, we are powers, etc" is one of reasons that have shadowed the real value of money, real basic of money. In his post of "sallent", we see that in Roman times "material values" had started to dominate more, hence, people then were counting "weights" more and it fits that period which was the last period of "mine age", an era when finer metal crafts were started to be made. During that period, there was a "jump" in math and engineering which valued materials and their weights more. In our modern era, it is not much different, material value is still dictating on the money, for ex, you call your 5cent not "five cent", but, "nickel"... As you know, 5 or Five in the cent is another thing, nickel value is another thing. When nickel value/price exceeds that numeral/face value on that coin, it becomes "a material" rather than "money". We are already used to "metal values" which are important in engineering industry and we aren't questioning these, we are accepting doing so is true. What about those 9000 years old stone coins with inciseds on them such as "I" or "IIIII" etc? i.e. this <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/token4-gif.669727/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/token4-gif.669727/">https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/token4-gif.669727/</a> and this <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/token1-gif.669728/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/token1-gif.669728/">https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/token1-gif.669728/</a> . Today, we can say these are simple cheap stones anyway and today many can say that they can not be money as they can be made by anyone at his small blacksmith workshop. But, it is not really so. These stones coins made in the last period of "stone age" that is neolithic age were finer crafts than their previous stone coins if there were any, that we don't know. So, those stone coins too had material values, but, not exactly same material value that we understand from material value today. Those stone coins were coins made of "nothing", of stones with no value, but, gained value, after what? After craftmanship by shaping them into round/geometrical objects and drawing inciseds on them. If I were a person who were living 10,000 years ago and if I saw those 9,000 years old coins, I could say that they were fine master craftmanships. And, the basic of money that people don't see today is visible on those stone coins which have "counting" on them is clearly seen on those stone coins unlike other coins such as numeralless metal coins, cowry shells, etc. Money, or coin in particular as the old form of money, has been counted differently, depending on the "values" of the day. For example, as seen in "Sallent"'s posts, counting material values/weights were being counted. Sometimes, and most of the times, political values were being counted as seen in the observed/head face of the coins, etc. All these have shadowed the basic counting in the money which can be clearly seen in the 9,000 years old stone coins on which there is no any politic figure/picture/etc., but, only, simple inciseds, for ex, "IIIII"  which corresponds to "V" in Roman (also appears in few of Roman coins as "Sallent" mentioned and why few they were? is relevant further questioning) or "5" that we see on the coins today, but, we still really don't care about "5" even if it is there on the coins. You can say "no, we know it and we care about it", maybe, but, blurry/flue. It is clear when I say "what about the coin with "1"? Definitely, in reality, nobody cares about it, not only in the US, but also everywhere in the World. PS: In this thread, which can also be considered as "online academical research study in progress" in the public by contributions of members of this forum also, these are being questioned. Such a study is not seen or very rare on the net in the public, so, lets enjoy it. Btw, even though Erol is a starter of this thread, Erol can be considered here as moderator of this thread or as a coordinator of talks in this thread. If "money/coin" was belong to Erol only, then, "Kentucky" et al, your personal attacks to Erol would be meaningful and it would not have been off-topic as this topic/thread was only about Erol if the money/coin were belong to Erol only. Your questioning Erol personal is like questioning the starter/mod of this cointalk forum, it is like saying "hey, cointalk forum admin/mod, why did you start  this CoinTalk forum which is off-topic, off-the purpose of the internet, etc." which can be considered as absurd. If there is a such a forum here, CoinTalk, in this thread/sub-forum, another aspect/point of the coin (counting/numeral/etc) is being questioned here mathematically, linguistically, engineeringly, etc etc and this counting/numeral/etc is the heart of money in general and its basic is in the coins. Must be so. Hope things clear. When we deviate from the basic of money as it has been happening for centuries we may find ourselves in chaos as it has been happening for centuries. Yes, chaos is relevant to this topic as well, as seen in omitting 19,000 trucks of 1cent coins in total 20,000 trucks of all coins. A "small" 1cent, a "big" result... This simply indicates there is chaos in the money&coin.[/QUOTE]

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