Coin Show Etiquette (from a Dealer's Perspective)

I would recoment talking to Alan! He collects sample slabs!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I do talk to Alan and I have contributed information and images for his articles. I have also discussed with him the possible restoration of the Sample Slabs website after it went down. (It is back up now but I can't say whether or not my interest led to the restoration of the site.) I was also the person who got Cameron started collecting sample slabs.

And we are now officially in danger of highjacking this thread.

 

Well I feel like I just droped down a trillion feet in knowledge.....Hehe... :smile
-Taylor

 

If you all wouldn't mind, could we please keep this thread on topic - discussing the various TPG's is an interesting subject, but it would probably be more appropriate if you started your own thread on that. Thank you.

 

Sorry Charmy! :smile-Taylor

 

My apology for bringing up a side issue, en passant.


Back to the original issue:

Bring cash with you – many dealers don't take credit cards, especially for bullion coins


Yes, but how much cash? $5K, $10K (and what about the 8300 forms with $10K plus???).

When I have wanted to buy a big bucks coin, the dealer will sometimes wait for the check to clear and then ship the coin, especially in states with sales taxes on such things.

I dealt with a dealer at the Baltimore show who said that if I did not pay cash, he would have to charge me sales tax.

So we have issues of accountability--greatly minimized with cash transactions, even when accountability to government and others would be in everyones interest. ​

 

As much as you think you might need or are comfortable carrying. I can understand dealers not wanting to take credit cards especially on bullion. I have almost never had problems using checks at coin shows but at most of the shows I attend most of the dealers know me and I have no problem getting references. In the few cases where the dealer has been reluctant I have offered to write the check a little larger to cover shipping and then ship me the coin once it clears. As for the sales tax issue, I don't like paying taxes anymore than the next guy but sales tax is a fact of life and if I don't pay it the dealer is going to have to pay it. So I don't have any problem paying the sales tax.

 

I really don't understand this. I've never been charged sales tax at a Maryland coin show for medals, coins or currency.

I'm looking at receipts from some of my currency purchases, so I assume the transaction was recorded, and there is no sales
tax. Only things listed are dealer's name and address, the item, pick # and cost. I paid cash for these items.

 

Yeah, I know for a fact that the method of payment does not change the sales tax applicability. Honestly this is exactly why the government wanted higher levels of 1099 reporting, because of illegalities like this.

 

Till the Goobers swoop in and post sales tax agents at all exits, cash will be an easy way to circumvent the sales tax issue. Once you put something down on paper it can be traced.

 

Many dealers do not like to take credit cards for several reasons including the potential fraud issues, but mostly because it means they lose 3-5% of that sale, and some dealers have very tight margins 10% or less, so this seemingly small percentage really does add up, that's why many dealers prefer cash or checks.

Also, certain states require that dealers pay sales tax on recorded retail sales, including Maryland and of course California (for individual sales under $1,500). Sometimes dealers will include the sales tax in cash transactions. Btw, dealers do not have to pay sales tax on wholesale sales to other dealers.

 

http://www.coinweek.com/bullion-report/maryland-bill-to-repeal-sales-tax-exemption-dies/

Maryland Bill to Repeal Sales Tax Exemption Dies
By CoinWeek on April 12, 2011 10:06 AM


A bill before the Maryland House of Delegates that would have ended the sales tax exemption for coins has been defeated.
House Bill 206—Sales and Use Tax Exemption for Precious Metal Bullion and Coins—failed to make it out of the Revenue Subcommittee of the Ways & Means Committee with the end of the legislative session looming, on April 11.
The death of HB 206 marks a decided victory for the numismatic community. Whitman Expo General Manager David Crenshaw, who helped lead a coalition against the bill, says there is plenty of credit to go around.
“This was a classic case of the numismatic community coming together quickly and effectively to get the job done. Whitman committed the necessary resources to engage a top-flight lobbying firm, The Rasmussen Group, and we certainly brought a lot of people together, but it took all of us to ensure the defeat of this wrong-headed measure,” Crenshaw said.
Coin dealers and other numismatists were joined in their opposition to the bill by Visit Baltimore (the city’s convention and tourism arm), which saw the measure as a money-loser given that Whitman alone hosts three major coin shows in the city each year.
“Working together, we organized letter writing and email campaigns targeted at the committee members in order to help them understand that the repeal of this exemption would result in less tax revenue for Maryland—not more,” Crenshaw said. . . "

During the show a PA announcement stated Delegate Stokes was in room #... to discuss the numismatic maryland sales tax exemption. I did not attend.

go to link to read entire article. http://www.coinweek.com/bullion-report/maryland-bill-to-repeal-sales-tax-exemption-dies/

A local auction place charges me sales tax on numismatic purchases. I keep meaning to get a copy of the law to show them and educate myself.
State numismatic tax laws are inconsistent and confusing,

 

To me this issue is a matter of knowing your customer. I spoke with a dealer who had unsuspectingly bought unusual bullion coins that were the product of someone robbing a drug dealer of 500 oz. of plastic encased gold coins. Buyers from Vermont to Florida were involved in the deal. By the time the FBI got involved the coins had all been sold. What is a drug dealer going to do about a theft--report it?

Government and various taxes exist for a reason at least in theory, to regulate commerce and make justice more likely. The cash economy is a grey area morally. Both good and bad transactions happen with cash. In my experience coin dealers have good instincts and common sense when dealing with unknown cash customers.

 

Very ture about the margins and credit card commisions. I totally understand why they don't want that hassle and expense.

Penny Lady, be cery careful on dealer to dealer sales and not charging sales tax. If a sale is normally taxable, dealer to dealer is only non-taxable if:

1. You have a resale certificate on file for that dealer
2. You conduct business in a tax neutral site and you do not have nexus in the dealers state.
3. You know for sure the rules in the state in which you are making the transaction.

A lot of dealers think that dealer to dealer sales are by default tax free, but they are not. There has to be an exclusion you are using or you are subject to pay the tax on audit.

I am not a state tax guy, I have just worked in corporate tax, so giving friendly advice.

 

The final word on MAryland numismatic sales tax:
Coin sales >$1,000.00 are exempt from sales tax. Sales totaling $999.99 or less are taxable.
All these years I've been flagrantly violating tax law by not paying sales tax on numismatic
purchases <$1,000.00. I hope no children have gone unfed or unclothed because of my reckless disregard for the law.

 

If there were it was the dealers kids, because if you didn't pay the tax, he did. And when you are working on a 10 - 15% margin and you have to pay the 7% sales tax because the customer didn't there goes 50 to 70% of your profit margin.

 

Actually its illegal for a dealer to pay the sales tax on a purchase. A penalty can be assessed for not collecting it from the customer, but legally the tax is payable by the buyer.

 

It may be illegal but as long as the state gets their money they are not likely to come checking to see if the dealer collected it or paid it himself. If he doesn't pay it they are likely to come check and the penalty would probably exceed the tax. (After all they probably couldn't really go after the customers. Well they could but it would probably cost a lot more than the tax collected.)

 

Here is a question dealing with coin show ettiquette, you go to a show and see Rick snow, author of the red book guide to indian head cents, is it bad form to shove the book under his nose and ask for his John Hancock on it?

 

Not at all, as long as you don't actually "shove it under his nose"! Rick is very approachable and doesn't mind at all signing his books for collectors.