Coin hobby language that turns you off?

When I see an item that is priced too low or isn't being bid anywhere near what I can get for it, do I have an obligation to tell the owner that?

 

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Hell no... And I would call you a fool if you did

 

Then to what extend does my 47 years of near constant study, my expertise, weigh when determining what price to offer someone for a coin? (sorry, I guess this is high jacking the thread.) I'll try not to do this again.

 

Very good point!

 

I don't understand. If they paid "reasonable" prices, that implies the seller was not ripped off. Plus I assume she agreed to the sale price. How did this end up in court?

 

The owner may have a very valid reason for wanting to "fire sale" the coin.

 

The pawnshop issue was years ago. I think the value of the proof coins at that time was around $3 million Most likely ten times that now. I think they got them for between $10-$20 a set.

You can bet with that kind of money at issue any lawyer would be able to argue a dozen different reasons.

 

That could be true for any coin deal. They could be stolen, counterfeit etc.

But what about when they don't. How much will I have to pay before everyone would agree that I didn't rip them off? What about when it's SERIOUS money?

 

I can see why a lawyer would want to take a shot at that, but I have a hard time being sympathetic when someone can't be bothered to look up values. If it was before the internet fair enough I have sympathy, but now a days if you can't google for a few minutes to get some idea I don't

 

I see and understand your suspicions. When I said "valid reason" I meant they might be in need of quick cash or just want to rid themselves of coins. Counterfeits, cleaned coins and stolen coins are entirely a different matter.

Refreshing to see someone with a conscience by the way.

 

It's a very valid question.

I have my own ideas and standards that I follow under various situations.

It will be readily agreed that I have an obligation to the folks that have no numismatic background at all. my knowledge could be considered a "deadly financial weapon", so to speak.

Not so when confronting another dealer. It's now a case of "who knows more". If a dealer says $3500.00 (or a customer for that matter), for a coin that is worth $12,000.00, I will take it from the dealer but I will (and have!) offered to go up with the customer. I said exactly ; "So you're at $3500.00 firm? No haggling? Are you sure you won't go up any?" They said no way!

Of course the percentages change depending on what type of material and it's liquidity. I will pay more for a gold eagle which I can sell immediately compared to, say a rare civil war token that may sit for 15 years (tying up my money) before I find a buyer.

 

Hitting a "home run" in the lexicon of Sales/Marketing has always meant obtaining a great sale, winning a bid/project. obtaining a major client, etc. Never had a negative connotation, but an expression of success on getting the job done right.

 

I see very few examples of sellers who do significant volume selling significantly below market unless they have failed to research value, trust the wrong dealers or collectors who have a selfish interest in buying cheap without telling the owners what their numismatics are really worth. I know a flea market seller who hates the internet, so he doesn't research some of the items he sells. An experienced seller has an absolute duty to know the value and grade of what he sells. 99% of the population do not know what numismatics are worth, especially if they inherit them usually from a husband/father who is incapable of speaking up....

One example was an ebay seller who was totally new to the field; she had a picture of her deceased parents from whom she inherited their collection heading her ebay listings dedicating her sales to them. One coin a rare date mm $10 Indian she listed at $800, and I spoke with the guy who ripped it at that when it ended up being worth around $4K. I emailed her that she needed to do her research before selling more of her parent's collection. If people are being financially raped, those who know that should let them know how to get proper value. I have spoken to dealers who had an upset conscience after making huge windfalls after buying collections who later shared their profits with the sellers.

 

Great to hear the news on that last sentence. I would give them all my business, even at a slightly higher price. We just remembered those who were the fallen on Memorial Day. They didn't give up their lives for the greedy, the profiteer's or the scammers. Let's hope God really exits and sends them to their proper place. Even if he doesn't, I would never give my fellow man anything less than proper due.

 

I am a firm believer in what goes around comes around.

 

One Massachusetts dealer told me that; the others I know probably would not do any follow up with windfalls though I have seen a few 100x results over what was originally paid because the dealer was not competent in valuing the items originally. There are plenty of 3-5X results over what was paid, again dealers who claim what they are buying has problems, is not worth much, they have "nowhere to go with it", etc..

PNG code of ethics gives good guidance on reasonable standards for buyers dealing with the public: http://www.pngdealers.org/png-code-of-ethics

 

After passage of the Hobby Protection Act, Carl Allenbaugh a.k.a Expertease, wrote an article in COINS (Jan. 1976) about a bird who wanted to protect a "magnificent rock" from "rock-munching augerworms."

In short, the bird pecked at the worms 24/7. It developed such a frenzy for protecting the rock it began to see threats from imaginary worms and pecked at them as well.

Oh no

"...Then, without a rumble of warning, the great rock shuddered and broke into a zillion pieces..."
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[IMO, saving people from themselves is a disincentive to learn and an incentive to become dependent. What if helping that to happen in someone is also cheating them?]

 

I'll always recall the coin dealer who actually publicly boasting at a coin show that he had ripped an older widow off by paying her $20 for an xf bust dollar! Fortunately, nobody offered praise. But neitherdid anybody object. I suppose the free market ideologists find this a fine example of economic justice...

 

I'm not given to schadenfreude in most cases, but exceptions may be made for cherrypicking nice varieties from such a dealer. Been lucky a time or two.

 

You cannot legislate morals into someone and trying to do so causes FAR more harm than good. All you end up doing is creating a mess and punishing honest people while the scammers continue to scam.