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<p>[QUOTE="NPCoin, post: 524750, member: 5629"]I personally do not have a problem with a 100 point system, or other other system at that. What I have a problem with is when people think that such systems may be forced upon everyone. That simply will not stand. You still have dealers and collectors (YOUNG as well as old) who continue to use a non-numeric system in their grading. Not everyone follows a Sheldon-like numeric system (though they may be a vast minority).</p><p><br /></p><p>I have no problem as long as either a seller or buyer, I and the one I am conducting business with come to an agreement upon the condition of the coin, as well as an agreeable price for the coin, as well. Price sheets are not bid/ask/sells written in stone which are not to be deviated from. Grades are not objective truths written in stone which are not to be deviated from. Our hobby has many sets of different rules and etiquettes involved in it that are not written in stone which are not to be deviated from.</p><p><br /></p><p>Forcing some form of "universal system" on everyone is far from the answer, because if you really, truly believe that such a system will "fix" anything then you seem not to truly believe that grading is subjective. Only a purely objective system can "fix" any differences that occur with respects to grading. Anybody who knows even a minimal amount regarding coin grading understands that grading is, in fact, subjective!</p><p><br /></p><p>It is this subjectiveness that is the core of the differences in grading in our hobby. Even with the vastness and plethora of opinions that may result in the grading of one coin using the current "standards", the system as we utilize it today is not enough to account for all of the possible differences of opinion.</p><p><br /></p><p>Yet, subjectiveness is by no means an excuse. SGS is one of the prime examples. Just because grading is subjective does not mean that one can take commonly used and understood terms and designations when the object does not, in fact, support such use of said terms and designations. Yet, it is not only SGS, but even NGC and PCGS. "First Strike" anyone?</p><p><br /></p><p>The point is, you cannot even begin to think that you can enforce a set of regulations that are objectively encompassing of every facet or consideration of grading and have it be consistently consistent. There are differences of opinion. There are differences, from coin to coin, in the extremity of certain facets involved in the grade.</p><p><br /></p><p>There are just, simply put, too many differences in coins to try to dictate an objective standard. Our hobby is a lot like real estate, in a sense. You can get a professional opinion, if you want, of what a property is worth. You can sit down with the owner or buyer and discuss any problems that are apparent (and even not so apparent) with the property. You can haggle back and forth on an acceptable sale price. But, in the end, it is JUST you and the seller that come to the overall acceptance or rejection of the sale offer.</p><p><br /></p><p>If you don't like the price for what you see, then walk away. Sure, you can complain to the State that an appraiser's assessment seemed to low-ball you property, but if you don't want to sell for less, find a different buyer. There are numerous remedies for a plethora of situations regarding real estate. But these remedies are either contractual and remedied in court, or they are regulated and regard, almost exclusively, disclosure.</p><p><br /></p><p>If there is a problem with a TPG (or even a B&M dealer) grossly misrepresenting a coin, there are already remedies both through the court system, as well as regulatorily through the FTC and the State Attorney Generals' offices. If there's a problem, use the tools already in place. But do not think to remove the subjectivity from grading, nor the freedom I have as a consumer to make my own educated decisions in purchasing, either for investment, for business, or for personal enjoyment.</p><p><br /></p><p>If people are too lazy to learn what they are doing, then they simply should not be involved in "the market" until they do have an understanding. It is no different from real estate, stocks, or precious metals investments. If you do not understand how it works, do not invest in it.</p><p><br /></p><p>If you are not an investor (or trying to pass coins for the "quick buck") and are simply involved as a purist collector, then I see absolutely NO need for anybody to interfere with that collector's pursuits. As a collector, that individual and NOBODY else knows what the collector likes. The collector is the one that decides what they like. The collector is the one that decides how much they are willing to pay for a coin. The collector is the one that decides whether to pass up or to jump at an opportunity.</p><p><br /></p><p>And if the person is truly a collector, then they will be most definitely learning about what they are collecting, so they will (even if slowly but surely) be in the know of the market.</p><p><br /></p><p>Even in the English language, there are many dialects worldwide. We even use the same words for different meanings. Even as speakers of the English language, we may not necessarily fully understand another English speaker. We have to have an understanding of what is being communicated. It is no different with grading standards. There should be no problem, so long as the two involved in the communication and transaction undertand what eachother is talking about.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="NPCoin, post: 524750, member: 5629"]I personally do not have a problem with a 100 point system, or other other system at that. What I have a problem with is when people think that such systems may be forced upon everyone. That simply will not stand. You still have dealers and collectors (YOUNG as well as old) who continue to use a non-numeric system in their grading. Not everyone follows a Sheldon-like numeric system (though they may be a vast minority). I have no problem as long as either a seller or buyer, I and the one I am conducting business with come to an agreement upon the condition of the coin, as well as an agreeable price for the coin, as well. Price sheets are not bid/ask/sells written in stone which are not to be deviated from. Grades are not objective truths written in stone which are not to be deviated from. Our hobby has many sets of different rules and etiquettes involved in it that are not written in stone which are not to be deviated from. Forcing some form of "universal system" on everyone is far from the answer, because if you really, truly believe that such a system will "fix" anything then you seem not to truly believe that grading is subjective. Only a purely objective system can "fix" any differences that occur with respects to grading. Anybody who knows even a minimal amount regarding coin grading understands that grading is, in fact, subjective! It is this subjectiveness that is the core of the differences in grading in our hobby. Even with the vastness and plethora of opinions that may result in the grading of one coin using the current "standards", the system as we utilize it today is not enough to account for all of the possible differences of opinion. Yet, subjectiveness is by no means an excuse. SGS is one of the prime examples. Just because grading is subjective does not mean that one can take commonly used and understood terms and designations when the object does not, in fact, support such use of said terms and designations. Yet, it is not only SGS, but even NGC and PCGS. "First Strike" anyone? The point is, you cannot even begin to think that you can enforce a set of regulations that are objectively encompassing of every facet or consideration of grading and have it be consistently consistent. There are differences of opinion. There are differences, from coin to coin, in the extremity of certain facets involved in the grade. There are just, simply put, too many differences in coins to try to dictate an objective standard. Our hobby is a lot like real estate, in a sense. You can get a professional opinion, if you want, of what a property is worth. You can sit down with the owner or buyer and discuss any problems that are apparent (and even not so apparent) with the property. You can haggle back and forth on an acceptable sale price. But, in the end, it is JUST you and the seller that come to the overall acceptance or rejection of the sale offer. If you don't like the price for what you see, then walk away. Sure, you can complain to the State that an appraiser's assessment seemed to low-ball you property, but if you don't want to sell for less, find a different buyer. There are numerous remedies for a plethora of situations regarding real estate. But these remedies are either contractual and remedied in court, or they are regulated and regard, almost exclusively, disclosure. If there is a problem with a TPG (or even a B&M dealer) grossly misrepresenting a coin, there are already remedies both through the court system, as well as regulatorily through the FTC and the State Attorney Generals' offices. If there's a problem, use the tools already in place. But do not think to remove the subjectivity from grading, nor the freedom I have as a consumer to make my own educated decisions in purchasing, either for investment, for business, or for personal enjoyment. If people are too lazy to learn what they are doing, then they simply should not be involved in "the market" until they do have an understanding. It is no different from real estate, stocks, or precious metals investments. If you do not understand how it works, do not invest in it. If you are not an investor (or trying to pass coins for the "quick buck") and are simply involved as a purist collector, then I see absolutely NO need for anybody to interfere with that collector's pursuits. As a collector, that individual and NOBODY else knows what the collector likes. The collector is the one that decides what they like. The collector is the one that decides how much they are willing to pay for a coin. The collector is the one that decides whether to pass up or to jump at an opportunity. And if the person is truly a collector, then they will be most definitely learning about what they are collecting, so they will (even if slowly but surely) be in the know of the market. Even in the English language, there are many dialects worldwide. We even use the same words for different meanings. Even as speakers of the English language, we may not necessarily fully understand another English speaker. We have to have an understanding of what is being communicated. It is no different with grading standards. There should be no problem, so long as the two involved in the communication and transaction undertand what eachother is talking about.[/QUOTE]
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