Coin dealer's ad--Chaim Greenberg

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Owle, Mar 12, 2012.

  1. Owle

    Owle Junior Member

    I have been seeing Mr. Greenberg's ads in Coin World (p.109 March Trends) and elsewhere, anyone here have experience with him? He stated in his CW ad the availability of 1865-s $20 Liberties in MS63 for under $3000, certified. Colorful ad, check it out!
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  3. james m. wolfe

    james m. wolfe New Member

    are you getting one???
  4. Owle

    Owle Junior Member

    I called him and he said that the coins offered at those prices are based on notional auction results etc., i.e. sorry but availability is extremely limited. It kind of faked me out.

    The ad says that a "poor" family was forced to sell because of the depressed economy and their own difficult circumstances, but that there were millions of dollars in coins in the collection available at firesale prices.

    I guess I am a bit suspicious after getting emails from Heritage warning me the guy had welched on his debts to them.
  5. james m. wolfe

    james m. wolfe New Member

  6. Owle

    Owle Junior Member

    It says "We do not have the heart to make a profit on the estate so we are working on a small brokerage fee. The family's loss is your gain."

    Also listed a 1924-S or 1925-D $20 Saint in NGC/PCGS MS63 for under $2000. Doesn't Coin World have some responsibility in clearing these ads?
  7. james m. wolfe

    james m. wolfe New Member

    again you getting any of those coins???
  8. Owle

    Owle Junior Member

    Are you? If you call for them they aren't available. It used to be the scammers on Coin World would offer uncertified rarities at impossible prices for grades, now even Coast to Coast, Paul Sims and the others are not playing that game.
  9. james m. wolfe

    james m. wolfe New Member

    i dont play games :yes:
  10. KoinJester

    KoinJester Well-Known Member

    And why would Heritage email you this.
  11. james m. wolfe

    james m. wolfe New Member

    :devil: they like him :yes:
  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    If, as you say, when you call none of the coins being advertised are available for purchase, then you may have something to report to Coin World. And they would probably take action, but that action would not be anything more than refusing to accept any more ads from them.

    However, it would also depend on exactly what the company says when you call them. If they claim the advertised coin/coins had already been sold to somebody else, then you wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

    If on the other hand you could prove in some way that none of the advertised coins were ever available for purchase, and that would probably be almost impossible to prove, then I believe CW would put a stop to the ads.

    Write or call Beth Deisher and ask her.
  13. beachbum99

    beachbum99 Member

    sounds shady to me...
  14. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Exactly. All coins are subject to prior sale. There is an internet dealer who has "bargain lists" from time to time. On his last one I responded to it within 2 minutes, and STILL had people beat me on the order. CW has a pretty long lead time, so if it was a deal I am saying its very possible he has already got 25 calls on the coin. If that is the case, everything is on the up and up.

    Btw what would the scam be? Did he try to sell you something else? Why would he simply advertise coins for sale to tell a caller no? The only way I see him making money is if half the ad he WILL sell at higher prices, and the other half was just to get attention.
  15. Owle

    Owle Junior Member

    As a Coinplex member I have gotten their daily/weekly bulletins on buy/sells, stolen goods and warnings on bad dealers. The Greenberg warnings went on for quite a while.
  16. Owle

    Owle Junior Member

    Very suspicious when rare coins worth many times more than the common ones are being offered at common date prices. When called he said something about those being examples of what he is selling, but though he lists a rare Type I and a rare Type II $20 Liberty in MS63 for what a common Type III might sell for in MS63, under $2000, there is no way on earth he, an experienced, seasoned coin dealer would offer the rare dates worth over $10K to any of the major U.S. coin dealers, to a Coin World subscriber just because they are a "collector". This is "off the charts" chutzpah, folks. Just look at the ad in the March edition of their monthly Coin World. The one with the sinking ship on the front cover.
  17. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Ok, I understand sir. So what do you think the game is? Trying to make a name for himself? Trying to expand his mailing list? Bait and switch? There has to be a payoff, since such an ad isn't cheap.
  18. Owle

    Owle Junior Member

    I don't know how he works the ploy and whether he gets people to fall for it. People see a rare date coin that should sell for a lot more. They call to see if there is any reality to the offer. The dealer then can offer what he actually has to sell; he has a "buying" ad a few pages earlier on how he is the top, top buyer offering more than anyone else. So people call to sell and people call to buy. The only way you make money is to have spreads between the buy/sell that are greater than your expenses, the greater the spreads the more profit, potentially.

    If a family offers an estate of several millions in coins to him and he says he will get them maximum $$$, and charge a minimum broker fee, why is he offering rare coins with all the hastles of running the ads, getting payment, shipping, handling returns, etc.?, when there are plenty of buyers who would send him an overnight check for a group of rare coins, it doesn't make any sense. We know who the top buyers of $20s are, Lee Minshull, U.S. Coins, Heritage, Spectrum, they are all eager to make cash offers for certified rare coins.

    The game that some of the advertisers have played is offering uncertified rare coins at grades way above the reality; they say they have a former PCGS or NGC grader who is moonlighting for them. Then they send the coin out after they get payment with an invoice that says the coin is MS63.
  19. james m. wolfe

    james m. wolfe New Member

    did you buy one yet???
  20. Owle

    Owle Junior Member

    If yoiu are looking for common date $20s there are a ton at historical lows. The rare dates in MS63 are extremely hard to find. You are lucky to buy them for Greysheet quarterly prices.
  21. Owle

    Owle Junior Member

    I got this email from Mr. Greenberg's company on the supposed rare dates they were offering in MS63:

    "as you know the gold coins the people are buying from us come from a estate of a dead collector whose heirs are strapped for cashand we don't have the heart to make a profit on the deals. the heirs hardly have money to buy food so they need the money. the coin world subscribers are
    goobbling up the coins almost as fast as we present them to use. call us at once"

    Jump to it world! They're selling like hotcakes!
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