COA or PCGS

What's to stop me from taking the certificate that comes with the coin, and reselling a fake in the capsule with that certificate? I fail to see the value you've put in the COA over grading and encapsulation.

 

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He does not want to get the point. He says is is genuine platinum. Why should I believe him? Because he has a piece of paper? A coin that is valuable like that should be certified, otherwise I assume it is fake.

 

Let's just end this ww3 is over ok?let this thread die before someone takes the first nuke.

 

No, you are wrong. For all I know, it is fake. Nothing to attest to genuineness, except a paper you could have printed. Maybe with a cheap coin, it does not matter, but an expensive one? I consider it fake, in the absence of TPG verification.

 

What are you talking about WW3? The question was simple COA or PCGS. If someone thinks that the COA verify's that it is authentic, they are wrong.
Don't get me wrong a COA when you buy strait from the mint is nice to have and does it's job, just not with 3rd party sales.

 

Let's hear it for our neighbors to the North: The Best Rendition of Canada's National Anthem (O Canada) - The Tenors - YouTube

 

Good for you, unless you bought that on issue date from the royal mint. The coa is worthless. I wouldn't buy it from you. For all I know the coin is a gold plated fake.

 

I bought it directly from the Royal Canadian Mint.

 

You can’t make a calf have kittens. He won’t believe what real collectors are telling him. He asks the question, and does not like the answer.

 

We don't know that for all I know You could've bought this from the China mint with a coa made from North Korea.

 

How do we know that? If it were a $75 coin, I wouldn’t worry too much. An expensive coin? I want authenticity guarantees from a TPG.

 

Love the authenticating signature...

 

Here is my genuine certificate of authenticity for the Platinum coin. Took me 37 seconds to copy and edit it on my iPad.

 

I think there are 2 reasons why collectors want COA’s, neither of which overlap with one another:

1. Guarantee of authenticity. This would only apply if the certificate could be photo matched to the actual coin. Ancient coin dealer certs are the biggest example of this, as well as the old paper ANACS certs.

2. COA’s as part of original mint documentation and packaging. Many collectors, myself included, would prefer a COA if purchasing an original mint product. COA’s from foreign mints have even more appeal, at least to me, because they add to the originality of the item. It’s nice to have everything that the coin came with even if it has no bearing on the coin.

Anyone (including Chumlee) who equates #2 with #1 is sadly mistaken in my opinion.

 

Go on e-bay, search Certificate of Authenticity...112,202 hits. Narrow it down to coins...wow, only 2,173 hits. Quick screen shot:

 

COAs do have their purposes. It is nice to have, as part of original mint packaging, so as to make the original issue feel complete. I like my moderns to have the box, COA, and everything it came with. That is a “feel good” kind of thing. Is this a guarantee of authenticity? Heck NO.

Also, COAs do have their uses. They keep Chinese counterfeiters busy, so that they don’t hack us. They are as valuable as the calls about our “extended auto warranties.” The one big value added that I do see is for the paper content. Remember the toilet paper shortage, back in April?

 

Thanks for sharing, plus the photos, et al. I'd reply to you directly...not here if taking up space, etc...sorry, but I'm fairly new here plus a tech-dummy, and don't know how. Anyway, I have a 1955-S Lincoln cent graded MS68RD by ICG, and it's every bit a 68 and arguably even a 69 (believe it or not)...and a nice natural/radiant but aged red (not cleaned in any manner I'm sure). As a student of grading/grading standards, it's at least a 68. It's in a recent/current ICG holder like those in your SLQ photos (not an older one). The coin in grade lists for $10,000 if/by PCGS and $9,750 if/by NGC, with only one other in grade listed for/by each service. That said, I can't sell it for even $100 (I wouldn't, don't worry, but have asked) and I paid less than $10 for it if that gives you any indication...no one will touch it given ICG...have been told as much, and afraid to submit for crossover grade to PCGS/NGC as likely may not get a 68 because of ICG. Even had a PCGS rep laugh over the phone condescendingly at ICG when I asked about crossover grading (I didn't share the specific coin...just an example). I know from past experience that PCGS, especially, looks down their nose and rarely gives an equal grade for coin in a lesser TPG slab (other than NGC or maybe ANACS) even if deserving. Sad to say, but a reality.

To your last, have considered this, but not sure I want to risk losing my MS68RD grade for a lesser grade...even a 67 loses thousand$ in potential value for this. Then again, those thousand$ aren't there, anyway, in an ICG slab, so maybe it doesn't matter. May try a crossover submission to NGC or PCGS with additional instructions to "do not slab if not same grade or higher" just to be sure.

 

There's a reason why you paid pennies on the dollar. NGC you can only cross PCGS coins, PCGS you can cross any slabs. If PCGS wouldn't cross it as a 68 it's because it doesn't meat their standard, not because of the slab it was in. They want the best coins in their holders

No it's not. Failing to get crossovers doesn't mean there's some conspiracy, plenty of people cross over coins that are in slabs other than NGC. Use it as a learning experience.

What your past experience is finding out is that a lot of the times those coins could be in a lesser slab because they would grade lower at the first tier TPGs. There are a lot of people that spend a lot of time hunting lower tier slabs for what would be big scores if crossed. While there are some that would be worthy, many aren't

 

If anyone is interested, I'm prepared to offer COAs for your slabbed / graded coins from PCGS, NGC, ANACS and ICG - unconditionally guaranteed authentic by me! Random internet commenter! How much should I charge for this fantastic service, that's the real question....

 

Too bad that CAC only stickers PCGS or NGC and won't touch ANACS or ICG, that would be a solution to your dilemma.

Which is the problem with ICG and ANACS, I mean they are 2nd tier to NGC and PCGS. I think they are fine services for authentication or variety attributions, but nobody is going to trust a MS68 if it's top pop in those slabs, when they likely would with NGC or PCGS. Ideally with a high grade coin, and more importantly high value, you'd want it in the most credible holder, and even get that CAC sticker as an additional step if it qualifies to maximize prospective buyers trust.

In the end, each company has their grading standards and their graders, it's really whether the "market" has confidence in their ability or not, (and track record really doesn't matter because they all have slabbed head scratchers over their time in the business) the perception is PGCS is better than NGC, NGC is better than ANACS, ANACS is better than ICG.

If it's a MS68 or even 69, as you say you paid less than $10 for it. crack it out submit it to PCGS, if you know grading, and you are being critical with your coins, and you come to this conclusion, then in all likelihood so would PCGS. it's really the only way it's really going to pay off for you, a 1955-S is common, but it is a "grade rarity" if it's up at MS68 or 69. only way that's trusted is if it gets in a PCGS slab ideally. and since you are there, no reason not to submit for CAC also.

Get those two things done and I see no reason it couldn't sell on Heritage or any of the auction houses for max value.

However, if it was overgraded by ICG and you are being lenient and optimistic on it yourself, then it's likely it was overgraded, and you know it and this is why you are reluctant to gamble further on getting it crossed over because it will downgrade.

You can crack it out, take ICG bias out of the assessment of it, I still think it would be downgraded though, even if it meets the textbook definition of MS68. NGC is more critical, and PCGS is even more critical than NGC.

Only way to actually get that top pop money is to actually be part of their top pop.

your problem comes because ICG population report shows 29 examples at MS68 ans 2000 examples at MS67.

PCGS has 1 in MS68.
NGC has Zero in MS68 and 3200 in MS67.

So why does ICG have 29 of them when NGC and PCGS both been around at least a decade longer?

No buyer is going to pay top dollar to then gamble on a cross over to NGC or PCGS. it's maybe a $20-$100 coin in MS67. If MS68 by PCGS or NGC, it's in the $1000s.

ICG has graded 29 in MS68, and that's the problem. AN ICG graded MS68 of that year and mintmark is likely worth $20-$100 if they kept track of it.

ICG has 30x the population of 1955 S MS68 that PCGS and NGC have combined. Maybe it's fairly graded, but maybe it's graded more lenient than NGC or PCGS would.